Let’s be clear: not every law enforcement officer deserves respect. Like in all facets of life, there are bad apples. That said…
(NY Post) Government-fueled cop hatred has claimed more victims. Two St. Louis-area police officers were shot Wednesday night during a protest outside the Ferguson, Mo., police department, one in the face, the other in the shoulder.
Both are expected to survive, unlike the two New York City police officers assassinated in December.
Such violence is the sadly predictable outcome of the lies about the police that government officials and the media have stoked for the last year.
US Attorney General Eric Holder has done all he can to keep tensions at a boiling point in Ferguson.
Quite a few politicians have fanned the flames, as Heather Mac Donald points out. She also notes the unseriousness of the allegations, along with the overreach, towards the Ferguson PD, which can be blamed more on incompetence, poor training, and the city wanting to raise money than raaaacism.
Officers put their lives on the line every day to protect law-abiding members of poor communities. Increasingly, those officers are at risk not just from thugs but from the rhetoric emanating from the highest reaches of government.
Sadly, these same officers are also dealing with heavy amounts of crime within those same communities.
Do the anti-government politicians and their FOX mouthpieces agitate the sovereign citizens and other right-wing nutjobs to assassinate police and other officials?
Eric Frein?
Curtis Wade Holley?
Jared and Amanda Miller?
Terry Smith, Brian Smith, Derrick Smith, Kyle Joekel, Britney Keith, and Chanel Skains
Dennis Marx?
Jerry and Joe Kane?
Richard Poplawski?
So Jeffery, do you think that people who run around calling Darren Wilson and George Zimmerman “murderers” have no culpability?
Why is it that you only look at what others say and not what those of your ilk say as well?
Oh, never mind.
We all know that answer.
No, they didn’t.
I do not believe they have culpability. At least no more than anti-government zealots are responsible for sovereign citizens ambushing and assassinating police and other government officials.
Should people be calling others inaccurate names? No. Wilson and Zimmerman are not murderers. Abortionists are not murderers. Obama is not a dictator. The Feds are not fascists.
Do you think criticizing the police makes one culpable?
Yet you have called them murderers in the past.
So were your statements inaccurate and lies then, or are your statements inaccurate and lies now?
Never mind.
We all know the answer to that one as well.
Are you sure? I’m certain I called them both killers, which they both are, since they’ve each killed a human – unarmed teenagers, at that. But being a killer is not the same as being a murderer. Wilson and Zimmerman are killers.
Are you lying or mistaken?
Never mind.
We all know the answer to that one.
Yep.
It is not surprising that you don’t want to remember or want to disavow your own writings.
So here we are again…. you are caught in a lie and a double standard.
How typical for you.
Why do you insist on these pissing contests? Do facts, evidence and the truth frighten you?
You are a lying piece of shit.
My bad. “Shit” just tweeted they resent being compared to you. My apologies to “shit”.
Last chance for you on the topic:
POS,
Do you think that government officials criticizing police for killing unarmed black men are culpable for the few attacks on police, ostensibly related to the protests?
If you do, how do you square that belief with NOT thinking that anti-government propagandists are culpable for the MANY attacks by right-wingers on police?
“…not every law enforcement officer deserves respect. Like in all facets of life, there are bad apples…”
This comment is unrelated to this story. I don’t agree with you, Teach. Law enforcement officers are a breed unto themselves and are unlike other ‘facets of life’. I would hazard a guess that 80%+ of them do not deserve our respect.
I have had to deal with a dozen or so in my lifetime, and I can only think of two that warrant respect. The others were just power hungry little people trying to grab ‘meaning’ from the power over others that we’ve given them. I’m not a fan of most of them.
Oh, and Gitcarver just destroyed Jeff. That was hilarious. Facts=pissing contest in Jeff’s world 🙂
The s.ingle most common crime in Ferguson is the fabled “manner of walking in the street” crime
This of course was the reason for the initial stop that resulted in the killing for which the protests continueAnd remember that cops description of the teen immediately before the shoot”….. He looked like he was bulking up to charge me he looked like a black demon”
Raaaaaacism ? Coming from someone who went to tone of the most elite and expensive prep schools in the entire USA?
Teach tell us all about all your
Black friends that you had there
He lied about what I said. You equate facts with lies? How bizarre, but expected from one as challenged as you.
Your ability to assess evidence has been shown to be… uh… remedial, at best.
Jeffrey wrote:
If we are to accept your statement as deterministic, then we must assume that you think that every soldier who has fired a weapon in combat is a killer, that you think that Kenneth Byrd is a killer, that you believe that every person who kills another in defense of himself or his family should be labelled a killer.
Did calling someone a killer not have a negative connotation, perhaps we could accept the very sterile definition you gave, but I’m guessing that you wouldn’t apply the label killer to Tom Vineyard, not absent being asked.
Meh. Don’t bother trying to reason with him, Dana. He won’t understand.
Still, cops suck. IMO.
So now you’re moving the goalposts? Another hit-and-run commenter said specifically that I called the admitted killers, George Zimmerman and Darren Wilson, murderers. He/she supplied no evidence to support his/her claim.
If I ask you the question, Who is Michael Brown’s killer? How would YOU respond? You don’t know who the killer is?
Darren Wilson is Michael Brown’s killer.
George Zimmerman is Travon Martin’s killer.
How would you describe them? Disciplinarians? Shooters? Executioners? Administers of Justice?
Are Wilson and Zimmerman ONLY killers? Of course not. Wilson was formerly a police officer, is a husband and by all accounts has lived an unexceptional life. Zimmerman is an accused child molester and domestic batterer who has had many encounters with the police.
Just because a killing is justified doesn’t make the killer not a killer.
Kenneth Byrd and Tom Vineyard are killers, but I’m sure the have other more important aspects to their lives.
Popular culture is unfair. Killers Darren Wilson and George Zimmerman will only be remembered for their killings; killers Byrd and Vineyard will be remembered by their families and largely ignored by the culture.
Does someone running around incorrectly calling Zimmerman and Wilson “murderers” make it more likely that someone will take a shot at a police officer? Doesn’t seem likely based on the evidence does it?
That was a well thought out comment, Jeff. I don’t agree with all of it (‘specially the last paragraph) but it was well written and I could easily follow your thought process.
I consider that a big win for the dichotomous nature of politics. Thanks! You can return to insulting my intelligence now.
I understand, but I disagree.
Do you think you are culpable for any attacks on police since you proclaim that “cops suck”?
I’ve had several encounters with police over the decades, almost always for traffic violations on my part, but once after I was carjacked by a young Black guy at the end of a .32, and have never had a problem with either local or state police. I always assumed it was because I was a polite, middle class white guy driving a van or a station wagon.
Once I was speeding back home from a hunting trip in southern Missouri when a young state trooper stopped me for doing 70+ in a 60. I had left my license in my coat in the back of my wagon and advised the officer that the back of the car was filled with rifles, pistols and cases of beer. He checked my license against the computer, asked if I had any luck hunting and advised me to slow down and have a nice day.
Maybe I’d dislike the police if I’d been abused by them.
No.
“Once I was speeding back home from a hunting trip in southern Missouri…”
Jeff. Stop it. No one believes you are a hunter. It muddies the horrible leftist water you wade through to tell us your terrible tales of unfairness and inequality. You don’t have to admit that you’ve never even fired a weapon. You just have to not claim you have done so.
It’s really no big deal. It’s not a rite of passage or anything. But you talk about it as if it’s a thing you’ve done. And you haven’t.
Good line, Jeff! You will want to break that into two sentences though.
It has awesome power if you truly do disagree with a statement. It turns pretty wimpy if you’re just trying to be a dickhead, so watch out.
wimpy dickhead,
Neither do the deer. But I don’t care what you think of me. You’re just another wimpy dickhead conservative with no class.
Can you be any more of an idiot? You know nothing about me.
I hunt, I fish, I’ve been married to the same woman for over 40 years, have kids, grandkids, put myself through college and graduate school, and have worked since my teens. I even tried to join the Army during Vietnam (full disclosure – my draft number was 1, so I was going to be drafted anyway). I’ve co-founded two companies so you could call me an entrepreneur. I invest time and cash into the company. I pay more taxes than most Americans make, but I don’t complain.
I’ve seen up close and personal how the government and business collude to screw American workers. I grew up on the poor side of a mid-sized town in the Missouri Ozarks in the 50s/60s and saw first hand how my Black friends and classmates were treated. I recognize and appreciate the good fortune of being a white male, tall, with an average IQ and good health – nothing I had any hand in mind you – just good luck that made life easier.
Why do you conservatives attack others over irrelevant things?
It is important to keep trying… You are white. You are kind of shortish. You are no longer married and haven’t been for quite some time(get over it). You are not a hunter. These aren’t beliefs. They’re facts. You decided to grow a beard. But it’s patchy. Whatever. Deal with it.
I don’t pick on you for irrelevant things, Jeffrey. I don’t even really like to talk to you at all, Jeff. It’s unpleasant.
It’s only when you try to make yourself appear manly, when everyone with a computer knows you’re girly, that I feel I have to step in. Frankly, I’d prefer it if you simply went away. You add nothing to the conversation above ‘he said she said’ crap. Or something about how we’re all going to die because of evil carbon dioxide.
Sorry to out your followers Teach, but this guy’s a huge deek.
I keep beating you up on facts and evidence so you start whining. Typical for a big pussy.
Of course you wish I’d go away. I embarrass you at every turn.
This is typical for conservablogs. The blogger alwasys has a self-appointed protector or two who blow him on a regular basis. Typical fanboy stuff. You usually blow another commenter or two.
My ass. Stop it, you self-important little pile of smelly shit. You’ve typed nothing of substance here.
Heh. Do you? Are you positive? Because from this side, it looks quite different…
I didn’t lie about it at all, Jeffery.
You made the statements and now you are trying to put them in the past as they show once again your lack or morals and hypocrisy.
And by the way, Jeffery, to call me a “hit and run commenter” is laughable. You got caught in your own words and now you are trying to shift the blame on everyone else.
Go sit in the corner with your wife you called “delusional” for awhile.
The funny part of this whole scenario, Gitcarver is that I only entered into the debate to get you and Teach to talk about your positions on law enforcement. I’m not a fan, and was hoping you guys would elucidate upon why both of you are.
Some other time though. Let’s see what Jeffrey says next instead. This is awesome.
Your turn, Jeff. Speak! Don’t hold back!
Fluffer Brothers,
It’s a conservative distraction, deflection daisy chain!
The Jester fluffing The Liar who’s fluffing the Blogger!
No. I do not believe politicians who criticize the police for killing unarmed Black men are culpable for the extremely rare case where someone ambushes an officer in retaliation.
The Liar is claiming I called Darren Wilson and George Zimmerman murderers, yet offers no proof. Only his well-known fevered delusions.
Fluffers,
You can’t refute my arguments so you mock and ridicule.
From Saul Alinsky’s Rules for Radicals: A Pragmatic Primer for Realistic Radicals
Rule 5.“Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon.†There is no defense. It’s irrational. It’s infuriating. It also works as a key pressure point to force the enemy into concessions.
Ironic isn’t it, that the tactic that conservafluffers rely on is one of Saul Alinsky’s.
We understand that you like to have a forum where you fanboys can fluff your leaders and not have any debate or discussion about the reasonableness of your ideology. We get that.
Teach could end your pain by banning commenters, as do most conservabloggers.
I will once again commend Teach for not banning critical comments. He’s tougher than the Fluffer Brothers, I guess.
The St. Louis County police have made an arrest in the shooting of the two officers in Ferguson.
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/prosecutor-man-held-in-wounding-of-two-officers-at-ferguson/article_a25d4fc3-5889-5f15-a8fe-2995af5962ac.html?mode=comments
There ya go. Make up more crap because that is the way that you deal with things when you are caught.
You then have the gall to say that other people are using Saul Alinsky’s rules without noticing that you are using them more than anyone. You make fun of people’s names. You make fun of everything that doesn’t fit your view.
To illustrate the point, you wrote:
Now of course no one in the thread cares that Obama is black. No one cares about his wife being black. No one cares about his kids being black. No one cares about his father being African (except as it relates to eligibility, but that wasn’t the topic of discussion). No one called his mother a slut. No one claimed that he blindly hates Muslims or Mexicans.
Yet that is how you answered the legitimate point that Obama has issues with the truth.
So was your comment meant to ridicule? Was your comment based on a lie you decided to make up? Please provide proof that anyone here other than david (who gets blasted for his racial views by conservatives) believes what you wrote. Please back up your claim that the speaker, in this case “Indignant,” said any of the things or believes any of the things you think he does.
Either back up your claim or admit your post was a lie, a distraction, or meant to ridicule.
Or perhaps all three?
If you think I am going back to review all the comments you made on the subject just because you won’t remember or even own up to your own writings, you’re nuttier than a fruitcake.
You have been confronted with things like this in the past and have walked away from the conversation without responding. Your other favorite tactic is to take statements and dismiss them because you don’t like the source.
The only liar in this conversation is you, Jeffery.
I’ve haven’t seen too many sites that ban people for being critical other than sites like the DailyKos, but that’s just my experience. I have seen people get banned – even from here – for being assholes like yourself. In other words, don’t flatter yourself into thinking that Teach would ban you for your opinion. He would ban you for what you are – an asshole.
Yep. Sadly, the race of the shooter is going to be made an issue.
The other thing is that one has to wonder why this convicted and wanted criminal had a gun in the first place? His conviction would have prevented him from owning a hand gun, yet he had one and apparently fired into a crowd. How can it be that a criminal didn’t follow the law when it comes to guns?
By the way Jeffery, this is the second time you have had to resort to name calling in the realm on gay sex. Why is it that you think that gays and their lifestyles should be the target of your jokes and ridicule?
Oh wait,….I know…. it is because you, like most liberals, don’t really want equality for people. You live in a world of hate – even to the point of believing your own wife is delusional.
You must be thrilled.
Fluffer,
Simply put, you’re lying about what I said. Just as bad, you keep doubling down on your lying. Just as bad, your lies are not related to the topic, but are just personal attacks. Have you no shame? You’re a double liar when you claim you haven’t looked back through comments. Liar, liar.
I call what you do “fluffing”. What would you prefer? Defending, supporting, blowing, worshiping, repaying?
When one’s worldview is shaken by evidence and reason, it’s not unusual to have the sort of meltdown you’re having now as you question your strongly held beliefs and realign your ideology to comport with reality. Just know it’s OK to doubt yourself, but not OK to lash out. Forgive yourself for any bad acts that may have resulted from your disordered thoughts. Make amends to those you may have harmed in the past. It’s critical though, to admit to yourself that you were wrong and to forgive yourself. It gets better. Now, go and sin no more.
Alinsky#5,
And another thing…
I sympathize with your concern over the vitriolic and personal tone in the comments.
I make a point to be sarcastic toward most of Teach’s posts – he is very sarcastically demeaning and personal toward Democrats, liberals and progressives himself – to point out the absurdity and especially the logical inconsistency of most new conservatism’s positions. (Really guys? Democrats questioning police killings of unarmed Black men is advocating “cop killing”, but the constant drumbeat of anti-government rhetoric from the right doesn’t contribute to the flurry of right-winger attacks on police and gov’t officials? I would think either both cases do or both cases don’t).
I also try to only mock and ridicule names of commenters who mock and ridicule my name. In your case, I make an exception, since I don’t recall you playing the name game. That said, you do personally attack my family and me and your favorite tactic is to derail comment threads where you have little to add intellectually. If you can’t win the debate, destroy the debater.
Conservative debaters also use a tactic of insulting and demeaning liberals, then clutching their pearls with the vapors when liberals fight back. Yes, it’s a bit like mud wrestling pigs, but as I’ve pointed out several times – I also try to supply evidence and reason. Few others here, including the esteemed host, attempt to do the same.
So… if you wish to discuss and debate issues – if you wish to discuss why I think the new conservatism is harming the nation and Earth – let’s do it. If all you wish to do is to play mock and ridicule – I’ll do some of that too – it is fun! But don’t feel hurt if I ignore your personal attacks.
Mostly I’m here to correct the host’s fabrications, misinterpretations and exaggerations.