I really did not have any plans to write much, if anything, on this whole CIA thing unless there were indictments relating to the actual outing of Valerie Plame, rather then to possible perjury charges. I mean, really, if Scooter Libby is indicted as the NY Slimes reports, so what? If he broke the law, sure, he should be charged. But where are the charges for outing a CIA agent that the Left so pitifully whined for? This is like watching a team try to acquire Joe Montana or Tom Brady (3 Super Bowl wins, remember) and ending up with Joey Harrington or Ryan Leaf.
Apparently, failing to recollect is now a crime. Of course, it wasn’t when Clinton forgot 267 times.
Everyone needs to take a deep breath, and do not fall for the Loonbats insane ramblings, posturing, gloating, etc, nor listen to the same from the media (even Fox News.) This is no big thing. Libby will, again, be indicted, for perjury, not for outing a CIA agent. Which, of course, was a farce, since she wasn’t covered under that Act, having not served in an undercover role outside of the USA in the preceding 5 years.
And, it is rather nit-picky. Really, who cares? This is no big huhu, except to the Lefties who think this will "bring Bushco down." LOL. Ohio, Gannon, DSM, Abu Ghraidgate, G’itmo, yada yada yada. They are truly sad.
Hunter over at the Daily Kosbat states:
My advice, at this point? Everyone get some sleep. Tomorrow will be like Democracy Disneyland, but with flying harpoons and broadaxes. Hmm… so I guess more like Democracy Six Flags.
Yeah, ok, sure. If you add that it is a chilly, drizzly day. "Wee, we got a perjury charge, oh goody goody." So sad. As Captain Ed points out, that would leave the Bush admin 59 indictments behind the Clintoon admin.
My advice? Laugh at the exuberance of any lefty. Do not debate them, it is always a waste of time once Bush Derangement Syndrome pops up. Revel in watching people drive down Insanity Lane.
President Clinton was impeached for obstruction of justice for what he told his aides. You cannot prove that someone has failed to recollect something. You prove the facts otherwise. A sensible person knowing they may have criminal liability would refuse to testify before the grand jury so that they could not perjure themselves or incriminate themselves by telling the truth. In most criminal proceedings the suspect is never called before the grand jury. It’s like the Miranda loophole. You do not have to issue the warning until the person is under arrest while you can use what they say before the warning to justify the arrest. By then they do not need any more statements.
Failure to recollect is not a crime. Lying in an attempt to obstruct justice is a crime, even if you’re a Republican.
First my good Captain – you weren’t in the Grand Jury room so you don’t know if he is “failing to recollect” or lying out his ass. This grand jury was run in secrecy the way the Grand Jury is supposed to be run. As I recall Clinton was actually impeached for his perjury and obstruction of justice. He certainly didn’t get off scott free. Here’s a thought, Why commit perjury? What are you hiding? I mean you don’t accidently lie to a Grand Jury. If you don’t remember that’s a perfectly acceptable response and one not likely invoke a perjury charge. The idea that Scooter is a facing a perjury charge because he couldn’t remember is silly. Take a look at the Wikipedia entry on Perjury Here’s the relevant section on forgetting & interpretation:
“Statements of interpretation of fact are not perjury because people often make inaccurate statements unwittingly and not deliberately. Individuals may have honest but mistaken beliefs about certain facts or their recollection may be inaccurate. Like all other crimes in the common law system, to be convicted of perjury you have to have had the intention (the mens rea) to commit the act, and to have actually committed the act (the actus reus).”
So to commit perjury you have to willfully lie or a make a false statement under oath. A little different than forgetting.
Tip of the iceberg. Right now Rove and Fitz are in the middle of plea bargain dance and Fitz is expected to extend the time frame and scope of the investigation. Whatever happens, the best outcome will be for these cockroaches to be exposed to the light. Pretty soon it will dawn on Americans that what this is really about is how the Bush administration conspired to take this country to war on totally false pretenses. Plame and Wilson were just roadkill along the way.
There still is no crime for failiure to recollect.
Perjury or obstuction of justice are crimes.
If a witness / defendant “cannot remember” either their own prior testimony or deposition, it is the burden of counsel to present depostions or prior transcripts of the witnesses’ own testimony immediately to either bolster or weaken credibility or to refresh their memory (yes, there is that much leeway) -not to incriminate.
Is knowledge optional here or what?
So, if lying to a federal grand jury is bad, then what Clinton did was bad. Because one of the charges was perjury, along with obst of justice, witness tampering, subjorning witnesses.
IF Libby did lie, then he should be suspended till the outcome of the trial. Period. But you cannot claim that Clinton did nothing wrong then turn around and say “Libby Bad!”
Forgot that part, didn’t ya?
I certainly didn’t forget it Teach – When it become apparent that Bill lied I was astounded, upset and pretty angry. What Bill Clinton did was wrong – he was impeached and found not guilty. Now granted the not guilty verdict was strange because he was the president of the United States and he had clearly done it but impeachment is a strange process. If it had been anyone else but the president they would have gone to jail.
BTW on a totally different note I liked the previous header graphic a bit better – more piratey. Why the change? I am not a regular reader but I usually find your blog from Salon about twice a month.
Where did my statement distinguish between Libby or Clinton?
I remember that Al Capone wound up in Alcatraz for tax evasion. It wasn’t really the most serious crime they might have gotten him for and it certainly doesn’t mean that he wasn’t involved in a bunch of other activities, but tax evasion was a crime.
It’s just the way prosecutors have to work at times in dealing with organized crime.
Indictments/ Yawn. Sounds to me like you’re the one doing the gloating – but the Fitzgerald investigation is a long, long way from being over. Today’s indictment is just the first – there will be MANY more.
Typical right-wing cult post. Complete with name-calling (NY Slimes? How about ‘Liar’s Cove’ for your page?)
As others noted, failing to recollect is not a crime – though it’s often a lie to hide a crime.
Perjury requires proving the intentional lying about a material fact.
It’s clear that this site, with its cult thinking, will twist the facts to try to minimize the crime.
It’s one more reason the current oligarchy does not deserve power – the corruption.
What’s interesting will be the timeframe for a new Grand Jury, assuming one is empanelled. Will it be set to end when campaigns for the midterms are going strong like April? That would be more than a little bad for the GOP in general.
Worse would be if it was somehow set to end a year from now for the GOP. Unless of course nothing comes of it, in which case it would blow up in the Dems faces next year though I think it’s unlikely they won’t find something. If nothing else, it will keep the war on peoples’ minds for that long which is bad for the GOP.
Failing to recollect? I didn’t know Kay Bailey Hutchison had a blog.
Let me put it this way: after hearing some of the indictment (kinda busy at work today), if Libby did that stuff, then he should be prosecuted. However, why is Clinton defended, despite having been indicted for the same crimes? Why should Libby be treated any different then Clinton? Why is Sandy Burgler, who stole National Security docs, treated like a hero by the left? Don’t misunderstand me, Libby did wrong (though he still deserves his day in court), but why are Dems excused, while Republicans aren’t?
Brian: That is my old original banner. I just pulled it out for Halloween, with the Jason mask. It goes away on Nov 1, back to the other. Which uses a whole lot less bandwith, too:)
I like adding little touches like that in, harder to do with the normal banner. Thanks for popping in.
Keep laughing Mr. Teach…get it all out. I sense that is a nervous laugh.
I don’t think you’ll be yawning for long. The cracks are really beginning to show.
Sending someone’s son to die for a lie is a sin in the eyes of God.
No one died from “the” blow jobs.
You are about to reap what you sow.
The beauty of it is that by strongly defending these blatant illegal activities (knowing full well they are illegal no matter what side of the aisle you sit on),
you become irrelavant and actually quite sad.
Ah yes, the Standard Republican Response when people hold their noses at the stink of corruption coming from the White House: Clinton did it too! Are we pinko leftists supposed to be the moral relativists? It is irrelevant if Clinton did it too, especially in the case of this President who was supposed to restore “honor and dignity” to the White House. What person with two functioning neurons doesn’t roll their eyes when reminded of that sad little canard from the newly fledged President Bush?
It’d be nice if Bush’s blog-flogging water carriers could defend their President without trying to compare him to Clinton.
Today, Republicans have proved to be not only COWARDS and Chicken Hawks for demanding a war built from lies that others will die for on republicans behalf, but also TRAITORS for condoning the outing of a CIA agent who was working to protect America from the many loose Russian nukes.
I do find it very sad (though not surprised) that Republicans have labelled themselves as such for the sole purpose of protecting a failed dim ne’er-do-well president who was born with a silver spoon up his butt.
Congratulations on your “loyalty”. Shame on you for your lack of morality.
bok bok, Chicken Hawks
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“IF Libby did lie, then he should be suspended till the outcome of the trial. Period. But you cannot claim that Clinton did nothing wrong then turn around and say “Libby Bad!””
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Morons of the Chicken Hawk Coop, Libby was a traitor acting at the behest of a traitorous Prez and VP. Many many many many many many many people died as a result. Many more are severly injured (although apparently no one you know).
Clinton had a hard-on for consensual sex, Bush has a hard-on for war based on lies. So, the answer to your question is, “yes, I can say Libby (and Bush, etc) evil and Clinton just naughty”.
My question to you is, what is worse, Sex or Sedition?
It’s sad that there is a place like this site where such a question even has to be asked.
Immoral, stupid, arrogant = Republican
So basically the only thing we know is that Libby is indicted on 5 counts – perjury, objstruction of justice and making false statements. All of which are very serious.
Making light of these charges seem disingenuous at best. I find very little to be yawning about! And very much to be concerned.
It’s your turn in the barrel, matey.
How do you like it?