I knew I shouldn’t have visited Fark this morning, because I ran across this deranged raving at The Stranger, an actual news cite in Washington state
Crosshairs and Consequences: The 2012 Presidential Campaign Officially Begins
And the first thing you see after the headline?
Well, that’s civil, don’t you think? So, if anyone attempts to shoot Governor Palin, we can blame the Left, and Paul Constant.
After much discussion about how mean Republicans are, calling them the defamatory word “teabaggers”, telling us that Palin is “monstrous,” we get
If Republicans want to recover from this catastrophe, if they want to make amends for this tragedy, it’s going to take more than blame-shifting, responsibility-dodging opinion pieces. They have to do more than merely disassociate themselves from Palin and the violent language Palin has employed to “excite the base”—and crank up the crazies—for the last two years. They have to make Palin a pariah.
It doesn’t matter that Palin had nothing to do with it, that Loughner was a registered Independent, that he was loco insane, and that he also shared quite a bit of political allegiance to left wing ideals, like that 9/11 was an inside job, that he was an anti-Semite, he counted Mein Kamph and the Communist Manifesto as his favorite books, and others, no, it was simply Palin’s fault. So, Paul post a picture of Palin in gun crosshairs. But, y’all Right wing extremists be civil
But just because Sarah Palin should go away, that doesn’t mean she will go away. And begging for civility out of teabaggers is like trying to convince a treeful of chimpanzees to stop masturbating.
You have to love calls for civility from the Left.
Loughner is now a skinhead
Why should conservatives be civil?? Why should we reduce the intensity of our feels about the fact that our country is in trouble? Not trouble, it is almost dead. And that is because of the liberal agenda and O. We need to step up our efforts, not back down.
The image on Sarah Palin’s now infamous map is not a crosshair as in a rifle scope, it is a surveyor’s mark. It’s the “target” a surveyor “shoots” with a transit or builder’s level. I know that those words are now considered no-nos, but they are the lexicon of surveyors. You can tell because the vertical and horizontal lines extend beyond the diameter of the circle. If they were rifle scope crosshairs, they would be inside the circle as when looking through a rifle scope. I’ve done a little surveying and target shooting so I know the difference. Obviously most liberals don’t.
Mike
John? Lot’s of anarchists have their heads shaved, and they tend to vote…..Democrat! Many sports figures have their heads shaved, and vote…..Democrat. It’s a cute little narrative you are going for, but, it’s compete bullshit, and avoids the central topic. Though, I’m not surprised you attempt to deflect.
And Loughner shares way more with the Left than the Right. Still doesn’t mean I think he is one of y’all: he’s a nut in his own world.
Why should conservatives be civil??
Because at some point in time we have to realize that the battle is not for the left or the right. They have already chosen their sides.
The battle is for the middle. That is not to say that we have to adopt wishy washy, lukewarm middle of the road beliefs, but rather the middle responds better to civil discourse.
There is a difference in the left and the right and people are starting to see it. The left hates people. The right hates ideas that people hold.
The left hates Palin, Limbaugh, Bush, etc.
The right hates what Pelosi, Reed, Obama etc stand for.
There is a time to be uncivil. There is a time to call people out for what they are. But it can be done in a civil, though aggressive manner.
John, They shave criminals heads, especially when transporting them. He had nothing to do with the shaving of his head. You really think they gave him a razor and said, “go ahead, give yourself a haircut.”
Mike, I don’t think so. Those are not surveyor marks. If they were, Palin could have defended that stance when the map first came out. She didn’t, despite the criticism and the concerns that Gabrielle Giffords expressed about the map. Couple that with they way she announced the image and her campaign in general and it is clear she intended them to be crosshairs.
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/2011/01/gunsights_or_surveyor_symbols.html
Gitacarver, well said, mostly. I don’t agree that the left hates people, or that the right hates ideas people hold. I agree with everything else though.
David, Conservatives [and liberals] should be civil because we live in a democracy with laws and rules. You can get your point across without advocating violence. Speaking of alarmists, the country has problems, but it is certainly not anywhere close to dead.
Kevin, they are actually surveyor’s marks. Perhaps the advertising agency made a mistake and used surveyor’s marks instead of rifle scope crosshairs as was intended by the Palin faction. Who knows. But the fact still remains that those ARE surveyor’s marks.
I would buy the argument that the graphic illustrator made the mistake. You should know, I also don’t blame Palin for this. But I do think she intended for them to be targets.
You made me do it, but here is her twitter post remarking that they are bullseye’s. I’m a reasonable person, if you can show me sufficient evidence to prove that they are surveyor’s marks, I will take back my assertion. But I like to call BS when I see it, and this whole thing sounds like BS to me.
http://twitter.com/SarahPalinUSA/status/29677744457
Here is some research done by another blogger. I don’t know their political affiliation, but would guess it’s to the right. But they do provide pictorial evidence.
http://theblogczar.wordpress.com/2011/01/10/cross-hairs-targets-and-surveyor-symbols/
I don’t agree that the left hates people, or that the right hates ideas people hold.
Really?
When you go to a right leaning rally, you see all sorts of signs promoting the idea that socialism, too much taxes, etc are wrong. These are all ideas.
Go to a left leaning rally and you will find signs advocating shutting Limbaugh up. Or attacking Palin. Or at one point in time calling for the death of Bush and Cheney.
There are extremes on each side to be sure, but for the most part, the statement stands and is accurate.
Well, I guess if you are talking about the far left and the far right, the extremes, then I would have to agree with you. The average liberal or conservative, I hope, doesn’t harbor these feelings.
Yes, then, they are surveyor symbols, but Palin obviously intended them to be crosshairs. Maybe the graphic artist made the mistake as you said. Thank you for posting that.
The average liberal or conservative, I hope, doesn’t harbor these feelings.
Ignorance is bliss.
Hate is a strong word. Dislike would fit much better. I have friends on both sides, they don’t hate the other side. The majority of the US is not as angry as the media would have us believe. To say that one side uniformly hates is a serious misrepresentation.
Kevin,
I don’t know where you live, but it sure must be a nice place and full of innocent, star struck people. In my area, there are a large number of people that are very, very pissed off. I see people of every social discription and every economic level every day. Almost all of them truly which the worst for our politicians. They are mad and madder than I have seen in 30 years. I have had men in their 80’s tell me they would just as soon die marching on Washington with a gun. I don’t think this shooting did anything to modify their feelings.
Palin clearly used a crosshair to target the removal of certain politicians that which to remove our freedoms. It is a metaphor and one that we will continue to use in civil discourse. Their is nothing wrong with doing this and it has been used many times in the past. It has no influence on schizophrenics. They don’t keep up with things of this nature. Most of the time they think they are on Johnney Carson or some similar show. Usually they are very fun to be around as you definitely know that they are crazier than anyone else in the room, this is very comforting. But they are also very, very dangerous. The liberals just got reminded how dangerous they are. The liberals reversed all our laws against keeping these people off the street and just paid the price for their stupidity.
David,
I live in Tucson. If you are sensitive don’t read this.
Your rant is alarmism at it’s finest. You live in a world of so much hate, that you can’t help but reflect your own ideas onto other people. Most people are more sane than this. Almost 50 percent of the population classifies themselves as Moderates. Maybe you live in an area with a high population of extreme conservatives that have nothing better to do than be angry at a government for some perceived threat. True, Moderates are described as the Angry Middle Party quite often, but this has no reflection on whether they agree or disagree with left or right ideologies. Rather, they are angry because they feel they are not represented. Not because they “hate the left” or “hate ideas”. For every “angry” person you can find, I can find at least 2 that are reasonable.
I don’t expect to convince you that your opinion is wrong. You are too blinded by your belief to see the U.S. as anything but sorely divided, angry, and ready to take up arms. The truth is nothing even close to that, but that’s okay, I hope you enjoy fantasy-land. Let me guess, you probably listen to Glenn Beck, Mike Levin, or Michael Savage. Those are the type of speakers that advocate this sort of sensationalism that you are spouting. Maybe you should calm down a bit and listen to some of the more sane voices within the Republican Party like Rush Limbaugh, or Sean Hannity.
The fact that you blame the entire state of the country on the Liberals is even more asinine. The Liberals can’t even pass butter in Congress. They are so impotent, that even with a majority, they can’t get anything done. It is nothing short of miraculous that they have passed anything this last two years. Which is another thing, this repeal of health-care is just a waste of time. It’s not going to happen. Ever.
Look, I don’t classify myself as a liberal or a conservative. If I was a judge I could easily be non-partisan. As it is, I am right in the middle, and you don’t usually hear the opinion of the middle because they don’t get all worked up about the end of the world, or how our nation is supposedly beyond help, and how we need to invoke “second amendment” remedies. Really? Is that the kind of country you want? Where, if things don’t go your way, you become a little crying baby and “die marching on Washington with a gun?” Personally, there is no place for you in this country. Get out, all you do is spread hate and violence. Face it, you are the minority.
I haven’t heard such a poorly worded argument, backed by absolutely no basis in reality since I taught middle school. The difference is, in middle school the kids don’t know any better. If you have been around long enough to see change over 30 years, you should know better.
I don’t agree with giltcarver, but at least he limited his comment to liberals and conservatives. That is certainly more true that what you are suggesting. Your implication that “people of every social description and every economic level” are angry is pretty far fetched. Maybe you work in the DMV, that would explain the hatred that you experience.
I know I won’t convince you, so please, feel free to have the last word. I’ve said all that I need to say on this topic.
Kevin,
You are wrong. I do listen to Rush and Sean, but Beck is not real and only playing a game. As to the people around me and the possibility of projection, wrong. The situations that I see are when people are losing their jobs, farms, etc. and come to me with anger toward the government. They also spontaneously give information when they see their freedoms being taken every day. I learned long ago not to start a conversation with patients on political grounds. They will keep you in the room all day with their concerns.
You are more liberal than what you think, in fact, do you work for Soros? You are bending facts to fit your desires. Most Americans are independent, not moderate. Most Americans are conservative. Only 20 % of the US thinks along the lines that you have advanced. Also, the personal attacks, classic liberal. I am writing a comment, not a white paper. So any number of errors, grammar, spelling, etc., I don’t care.
Now, the loss of freedom from the liberals. This occurred under Wilson, FDR, LBJ and now the big O. Most of it did not entail use of the congress; instead, it was regulations, agencies, judges, and so forth that have changed our country. I seriously doubt if you actually know what freedom is.
Do you work for Move On ?
Glad to hear about Beck. He may not be real, but there are a lot of people that believe him. An entire side of my family swears by him. Well, if you are projecting you wouldn’t know, that is the definition of projection. But, I will take your word for it. I don’t mean that in an insulting way, truly, I am just going to trust you on this.
I wonder, what freedoms do they feel are being taken away?
No, I was basing my information off the American Moderate Parties website. Which may be flawed in itself. http://www.americanmoderateparty.org/ What personal attacks? If I remember correctly, you started that. I’m not attacking your grammar, I’m attacking your argument. Most Americans and Moderates, and there are more conservatives than liberals. Which is my entire point. The majority does not think like you.
No, I don’t work for MoveOn either.
Okay, I really have to get off this, I have to get some work done. Thanks for your response though, and truly, I don’t mean to be insulting, although, I can see how it came off that way. If we were arguing in person, I can guarantee it wouldn’t have seemed like an insult.
I like Beck, but, have been tuning him out for the past few months. Too much religious talk. While I am certainly Christian, I prefer not to mix it all together as such. If I want someone preaching, I’ll tune in to the Jesus Christ Show (Sundays here in Raleigh) or something, or, go to church. Though, I did very much enjoy the 8/28 rally.
My favorite is Neal Boortz, and, have been listening to Jason Schnitt a lot lately.
I can agree with that Teach. Besides the fact that Beck is actually Mormon, which makes me doubt his true authenticity as a Christian, I just don’t care for the rants, and loose connections that he makes. I haven’t heard of Neal Boortz or Jason Schnitt, I’ll have to look them up.