It’s really just that easy!
(The Blaze) Is Melissa Harris-Perry—the MSNBC host who recently declared that kids belong to whole communities— stirring up controversy again?
On today’s episode on finding solutions to poverty, Newsbusters noticed that Harris-Perry’s colleague Chris Hayes appeared in a quick video clip at the end of one segment holding up a handwritten sign with his answer: “Giving people money. It’s actually that easy.â€
The video appeared during Harris-Perry’s show, and Newsbusters’ Mark Finklestein was probably the only person who saw it, being MSNBC and their awesome ratings (sic). Mark points out
Perhaps Hayes hadn’t tuned in to hear Michael Tanner of the Cato Institute make the point that the U.S. already has 126 federal anti-poverty programs that spend $688 billion every year, with state and local programs spending another $280 billion. Almost a trillion given to poor people each year–with no significant impact on reducing poverty!
Liberals have been fighting the “war on poverty” since the 1960’s, and it seems as if their policies continuously make things worse, which makes Chris Hayes’ idea perfect for liberals. Perhaps Melissa and Chris could give most of their cushy salaries away to poor people.
Crossed at Right Wing News and Stop The ACLU.
I bet that Chris Hayes’ suggestion only applies to making people give their money to others – not to his money.
The poverty rate fell each year from 1960 until year 2000. Since then it has gone up. 16 million children are among those “poor” people. about 1/2 of all poor Americans are kids. Old Americans also make up a very large number. Teach please don’t tell me you think these people are lazy moochers. Please. But kids, under 18 are the largest group of poor Americans. And it would have been MUCH higher if abortions had stopped.
Factually false.
Not only that, the amount of money we have spent on poverty has risen in dollars over the years (inflation adjusted.)
Right. Because there is nothing like saying “poverty sucks” by making irresponsible decisions and then taking a life because of those decisions.
If anything john, you just proved why the war on poverty is not a war based on dollars, but sense.
Well, of course not Chris’s money, or the money of any of the fat cats at MSDNC, GC. But, hey, maybe John is willing to give his own money….yeah, not going to happen.
So, I think that is a good idea. We just take money from those who work, to those who don’t. IF we gave them money, they wouldn’t be poor any more. What other answer would work? We need to do something. We NEED to do SOMETHING. Can’t we just DO something to help the children? Is 10Trillion to much to ask?
It is not my concept, it is the Catholic Church’s concept and you can learn about it by reading. Yes I can, and Yes I can. First let me say I am a Free market guy! I like the free market!! First and foremost it will be necessary to understand the free market. You apparently have a very rudimentary understanding of the free market. You assume I’m sure that †a rising tide lifts all shipsâ€. The overwhelming evidence shows that this simply is not true. It not only is not true it is blatantly false. ( do your own home work on this)FACT (The distribution of wealth in the USA is each and every year being isolated to fewer and fewer people). What the free market does and is supposed to do is create a class system. It creates rich people and it creates poor people. ( the smartest, hardest working and sometimes the luckiest get to the top. The rest are left behind in the dust. This is the free market and this is how it’s built to work. Fact :in the first time in the History of the World children will have less wealth than their parents. Fact: the USA ranks in the top 5 most capitalistic nations. Fact: The USA has the greatest discrepancy of wealth than any other industrialized nation. Fact: World wide 30,000 children die each and every day from starvation! This is the free market at work. Does the USA have the resourses to stop this? Well 57 trillion dollars worth of accumulated wealth ( Isolated to a very few people). Uhh yeahh they could but will not because they worked hard for their money ( cough, cough). I mentioned the Catholic Church is not an advocate for socialism , Capitalism or any other ism… it however is concerned with the least of the brethren. It states it is wrong to conquer the world while people are starving, sick and homeless. I’m just not sure how your views relate to the rest of the world that lives on a one dollar a day ( fact). ( Africa, Phillippines, ect ect) We’re American’s are 5% of the worlds population and we consume the 25% of the worlds resources. Shameful! My wish is that every American has an opportunity to switch places with an African and put the Free market to work! Thats real freedom. Most unfortunate we Americans are so insensitve to the realities and plight of the rest of the world especially since our nation was built on the annihilation of one race of people ( The American Indian) and the enslavement of another race of people. Unfettered capitalism is great huh? Silly goose
Universal Destination of Goods is the solution. This primordial principle would end poverty. The principle states that the goods of the world are to be shaired equitably by all. The right to private property is valid and just yet it is under a “social mortgage”. Which simply put means private property must be used for the good of all !
Alas I Am a Genius problem solved. oh This is the teaching of the Catholic Church… maybe I’m not a Genius… just a good Catholic
So, Mr Good Catholic, how would you implement this plan? How would you turn all the things that are owned now, in to shared property? Who would you seize first? Who would be in charge of this seizure?
What would you do to those who want more than their fair share? Who would oversee who is due their fair share? How would you determine when someone has had enough of their fair share?
I’m guessing this primordial plan does not involve any value given to any property. You want something, you prove you need it by some form, that you have used your share and need more, … and you just go get it? Who gives it to you?
Let’s do an example. You have a need for tomatoes. You walk to Arizona and pick the tomato plant and hand carry them back to Wisconsin. Sounds like fun. But that only can occur if you planted the seeds first, right? Ohhh, someone else planted the seeds for the common good. What is in it for that planter? Why is he planting? What manner of reason is it in him to go out every day in the hot Arizona sun and plant tomatoes for people to come pick? Why would he want to sweat and break his back to hand plant tomato seeds all day every day of the hot growing season?
You are mistaken and do not understand the concept . There is no seizure of private property. Private property is valid and just, but its purpose ought to be used for the good of Humanity. The Catholic Church does not support Socialism nor is it an advocate for Captitalism.
You are correct. I do not understand your concept. What part of the free market is not for the good of humanity? Can you point to anything that has the lives of humanity being worse now than at any other time? Can you show where our way of life, our standard of living is worse due to capitalism?
When people create something and deem to make a profit from it, they are giving other people an opportunity to trade value for that “something”. People make judgements on whether that “something” is worth giving money and time for. Will it save them time or money to purchase said “something”?
People buy gasoline for their expensive car because we have placed a value on driving longer distances in the comfort of a vehicle, instead of riding a horse or walking, and that allows us to generate more wealth or have more time for other things we wish to do.
The only thing that is not good for humanity is Socialism, Liberalism, Progressivism, and Nanny-state-ism. Under these forms of control, the poor suffer. Capitalism and the free market have allowed common every day people to become leaders of the free world and to advance all peoples across the globe through its generosity and advancements in science and medicine.
It is not my concept, it is the Catholic Church’s concept and you can learn about it by reading. Yes I can, and Yes I can. First let me say I am a Free market guy! I like the free market!! First and foremost it will be necessary to understand the free market. You apparently have a very rudimentary understanding of the free market. You assume I’m sure that ” a rising tide lifts all ships”. The overwhelming evidence shows that this simply is not true. It not only is not true it is blatantly false. ( do your own home work on this)FACT (The distribution of wealth in the USA is each and every year being isolated to fewer and fewer people). What the free market does and is supposed to do is create a class system. It creates rich people and it creates poor people. ( the smartest, hardest working and sometimes the luckiest get to the top. The rest are left behind in the dust. This is the free market and this is how it’s built to work. Fact :in the first time in the History of the World children will have less wealth than their parents. Fact: the USA ranks in the top 5 most capitalistic nations. Fact: The USA has the greatest discrepancy of wealth than any other industrialized nation. Fact: World wide 30,000 children die each and every day from starvation! This is the free market at work. Does the USA have the resourses to stop this? Well 57 trillion dollars worth of accumulated wealth ( Isolated to a very few people). Uhh yeahh they could but will not because they worked hard for their money ( cough, cough). I mentioned the Catholic Church is not an advocate for socialism , Capitalism or any other ism… it however is concerned with the least of the brethren. It states it is wrong to conquer the world while people are starving, sick and homeless. I’m just not sure how your views relate to the rest of the world that lives on a one dollar a day ( fact). ( Africa, Phillippines, ect ect) We’re American’s are 5% of the worlds population and we consume the 25% of the worlds resources. Shameful! My wish is that every American has an opportunity to switch places with an African and put the Free market to work! Thats real freedom. Most unfortunate we Americans are so insensitve to the realities and plight of the rest of the world especially since our nation was built on the annihilation of one race of people ( The American Indian) and the enslavement of another race of people. Unfettered capitalism is great huh? Silly goose
heh.. you claim to not pushing Socialism yet every sentence you slam capitalism and free market
.. and proclaim Socialism.
And for your information.. there is no free market in Africa. And what you claim is Free Market is Socialism (distribution of wealth and forced equality).
Free market is not forced. It is by its name and nature – FREE. People are free to choose how, where, and when to conduct business. People are free to do business where and when they want – so that any person can work for anyone and anywhere – as long as the free market principles are in play and both sides agree on a trade of equal value.
If the Catholic Church were concerned with the “least of the brethren”, then why were they for ObamaCare, rarely take a stand against abortion, and were one of the primary reasons for the Dark Ages.
And don’t get me started on deaths of American Indians and the Catholic Church.
I don’t want to seem to be anti-Catholic, but they are not the answer to the world either.
Facts are facts. I did not state my opinion. I stated the Facts. You did not respond to one of my Facts. Africa has a mix of socialism and Capitalism. Like most countries do. The point is that America today is one of the most Capitalistic nations ever and we have the greatest separation between the rich and poor. My pet pieve is when people say the Free market is the answer to end poverty. IT IS NOT!! The free market by nature is not free. ( there is nothing free about a factory owner paying an employee $8/hr) this is a structural injustice. The freedom lies with the owner. You say many things; which I simply did not say , nor do I believe. I am not advocting forced equality. I am suggesting that rich people need to help poor people more than they are. The fact remains our nation was started by annihilation of the Indians and the enslavement of Africans.( Forced cave-man capitalism) The founding fathers were Protestant not Catholics. End poverty stop acquiring more than you need!
FACTs:>>>>>>>
The only problem that The Church had with OC was its provision for Abortion.
Any Catholic procuring abortion is subject to automatic excomunication.
“The Catholic church generally was on the side of the angels in their treatment of the Indians. It was the outraged voice of the friar, Bartolomé de las Casas, which first made Europe aware of the fate that had befallen thousands of the natives in enslavement by the Spanish conquerors. As it was the agitation aroused by Las Casas and his kind that prompted Pope Paul III in 1537 to issue the bull Sublimis Deus in which he declared: “The said Indians and all other people who may later be discovered by Christians, are by no means to be deprived of their liberty or the possession of their property, even though they be outside the faith of Jesus Christ.” (American Catholicism, 5)
The Catholic Church is the largest provider of Human services in the world. In fact combine every nation and the Catholic church is still the largest provider of Human services in the world!!!.
You somehow have turned this debate into a most futile attempt to discredit Catholicism. I am not here to defend the church I am here to defend the poor. The church does have the anwser to this question, which I have already stated at nauseum.
BWWWAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA
Free does not equal free??????
BWWAAHAHAHAHHHHAAA
Wow, I wish I made $8/hour when I had my first few jobs. And in a free market world, the employee has a choice whether they want to work in that factory, doing that job, for $8/hour.
You can’t place blame on the owner or the agreement when people willingly and voluntarily agree to work for the owner.
And, I guess you forgot the millions of American Indians that were killed when they refused to convert to Catholicism. Or the millions that died from the viruses and diseases that missionaries brought the tribes. And, no, the Catholic Church has not done a good job other than via words to defend the lives of the unborn.
Yes you are when you wail against the evils of rich people, classes, and demand distribution of monies and goods to the poor.
Again you state things I did not say. Which is typical of a circular argument . Did I say rich people are evil or did I suggest they give more? Where did I demand distribution of money? Did I rail against classes or say ” the free market establishes classes. Yes the factory worker could choose to starve to death, you are right he does, I guess, have a choice just not a very good one.
So you put the word Free infront of market and that makes are system free? Silly at best.
We clearly have a different set of moral values and I’m ok with that. Good luck with yours and I’ll stick to mine. You can explain yours to Jesus when you meet him. ( thats if you are a Christian)
What the hay lets do a little thought experiment and assume Jesus is for real and he really returns to Rule. What whould he do? Jesus contiually railed against the rich and contiually was an advocate for the poor. Your only hope is that there is no GOD and there is no JESUS. Then you win . Otherwise you lose.
Mediatore di amore
The principle does not state that at all. The principle states that all men participate in the dominion of resources, but that is not even close to the idea of “shared equity.”
Given that standard of living of even the poor in the US is greater than that of any other country, it seems your point is somewhat lost or at least moot.
You are correct. It costs the factory owner money to pay the employee. Thank you for stating the obvious.
However, that is not the definition of the “free market” and I would hope you know that. The “free market” is one that would allow the worker to start their own factory, or service without interference from the government or outsiders who, like you, think they know better.
That leads to the question “are you against the idea that people should have the ability to participate in a marketplace selling their products, goods, and services as they see fit?”
Factually false.
The only problem that The Church had with OC was its provision for Abortion.
Factually false.
While you seem to feel fine attacking the founding of this countries, are you denying that the RCC, under the direction of the Pope, led wars to conquer people, lands and property?
That being the case, why are you condemning this country while failing to condemn the RCC for doing the same thing?
But since you want to deal with facts, the largest percentage of Catholic citizens reside in Brazil, the Philippines, the US and Mexico. Compare the standard of living in the US to either Brazil, the Philippines, and Mexico. Let us know how your mis-understood and mis-stated “principle of the universal destination of goods” is working in Brazil, the Philippines and Mexico.
Secondly, in the United States, there is no record of how much the RCC takes in, but it is estimated that it spends $170 billion per year. Of that $170B, $150B goes to Catholic hospitals and schools. I was not aware that these institutions were giving their services away for free above and beyond other similar institutions, but I could be wrong. The RCC spends approximately $11 billion on its churches and parishes. The church also spends money on other things which account for several billions, but I won’t even count that amount. That means the church spends at the most, $9 billion dollars a year for charity.
Contrast that with Americans – the very Americans living in the country you want to demonize – who give over $360 BILLION dollars to charities above and beyond church contributions each and every year.
In other words, get back to us when you have removed the log from your eye while proclaiming we have a splinter. (And I hope that teaching is familiar to you. If not, that says a great deal.)
There is a certain smugness and lack of honesty in your posts which is disconcerting. While you feel comfortable condemning others, you seem to have a blind spot where your own actions reside. You also have a blind spot where the very “teachings” of the church you hold in esteem as being perfect and beneficial are not put into practice by that very church.
That tells the rest of us something, but for ideologues such as yourself, notions that are contrary to their own preconceived notions are not welcomed or received well.
wow… there out tonight
Wrong again, Americans do not give 360 billion dollars to charity. Americans take 360 billion dollars in tax credits. Its not giving to charity if you are taking a tax credit for it.
Who have I condemed?
Factually false means you have rebuffed my argument? Hard to beat that one. Silly goose do your home work.
You do not have to accept this doctrine, of course) but it is the solution to end poverty. Poverty is the topic not the Catholic Church.
Catholic Doctrine
66. Beginning our discussion of the rights of man, we see that
every man has the right to life, to bodily integrity, and to the means
suitable for the proper development of life; these are primarily food,
clothing, shelter, rest, medical care, and, finally, the necessary social
services. Therefore, a human being also has the right to security in
cases of sickness, inability to work, widowhood, old age, unemployment,
or in any other case in which he is deprived of the means of
subsistence through no fault of his own.
(Pacem in Terris, n. 11)
XI. “SOCIAL SINâ€
175. Moreover, one must denounce the existence of economic,
financial and social mechanisms which, although they are manipulated
by people, often function almost automatically, thus accentuating
the situation of wealth for some and poverty for the rest. These
mechanisms, which are maneuvered directly or indirectly by the more
developed countries, by their very functioning favor the interests of
the people manipulating them. But in the end they suffocate or condition
the economies of the less developed countries. Later on, these
mechanisms will have to be subjected to a careful analysis under the
ethical-moral aspect.
(Sollicitudo Rei Socialis, n. 16)
176. To speak of ‘social sin’ means in the first place to recognize
that, by virtue of human solidarity, which is as mysterious and
intangible as it is real and concrete, each individual’s sin in some
way affects others…. Some sins, however, by their very matter constitute
a direct attack on one’s neighbor and, more exactly, in the
language of the Gospel, against one’s brother or sister. They are an
offense against God because they are offenses against one’s neighbor.
These sins are usually called ‘social sins,’ and this is the second
meaning of the term…. Likewise, the term ‘social’ applies to every
sin against justice in interpersonal relationships, committed either
by the individual against the community or by the community against
the individual…. Also social is every sin against the common good
and its exigencies in relation to the whole broad spectrum of the
rights and duties of citizens.
(Reconciliatio et Paenitentia, n. 16)
183. But authority is not to be thought of as a force lacking all
control. Indeed, since it is the power to command according to right
reason, authority must derive its obligatory force from the moral order,
which in turn has God for its first source and final end. Wherefore
our Predecessor of happy memory, Pius XII, said: “The absolute
order of living beings and man’s very destiny (We are speaking of
man who is free, bound by obligations and endowed with inalienable
rights, and at once the basis of society and the purpose for which it
exists) also includes the state as a necessary society invested with the
authority without which it could not come into being or live…. And
since this absolute order, as we learn from sound reason, and especially
from the Christian faith, can have no origin save in God Who
is our Creator, it follows that the dignity of the State’s authority is
due to its sharing to some extent in the authority of God Himselfâ€
(Pius XII, Christmas Eve Radio Message, 1944).
(Pacem in Terris, n. 47)
I. THE UNIVERSAL DESTINATION OF MATERIAL GOODS
202. “Fill the earth and subdue it†(Gn 1:28). The Bible, from
the first page on, teaches us that the whole of creation is for man,
that it is his responsibility to develop it by intelligent effort, and
by means of his labor to perfect it, so to speak, for his use. If the
world is made to furnish each individual with the means of livelihood
and the instruments for his growth and progress, each man
has, therefore, the right to find in the world what is necessary for
himself. The recent Council reminded us of this: “God intended
the earth and all that it contains for the use of every human being
and people. Thus, as all men follow justice and unite in charity,
created goods should abound for them on a reasonable basis†(GS,
n. 69). All other rights whatsoever, including those of property
and of free commerce, are to be subordinated to this principle.
They should not hinder, but on the contrary, favor its application.
It is a grave and urgent social duty to redirect them to their primary
finality.
(Populorum Progressio, n. 22)
203. The Successors of Leo XIII have repeated this twofold
affirmation: the necessity and therefore the legitimacy of private
ownership, as well as the limits which are imposed on it. The
Second Vatican Council likewise clearly restated the traditional
doctrine in words which bear repeating: “In making use of the
exterior things we lawfully possess, we ought to regard them not
just as our own but also as common, in the sense that they can
profit not only the owners but others too†(GS, n. 69); and a little
later we read: “Private property or some ownership of external
goods affords each person the scope needed for personal and family
autonomy, and should be regarded as an extension of human
freedom…. Of its nature, private property also has a social function
which is based on the law of the common purpose of goods†(GS, n.
71).
(Centesimus Annus, n. 30)
Clear the money changers out of the Vatican?
Really? Disagreeing with you is somehow a mortal sin? Do you have any scriptural backing for that?
Pride is a sin too, my friend.
Yes. Like placing UN- in front of words changes the word’s meaning. The “free” in front of market is descriptive of the type of market that you are attempting to describe. It’s called English. The fact that our “free market” is having problems is because of the incessant control of governmental regulations and the thorns of darkness by Socialism\Progressivism.
You really need to re-read the complete Holy Bible again. That is not what Jesus did. And I don’t have to assume, I know he is real. Jesus did not rail against the rich. He railed against the reliance on, and the “worship” of, money. Not necessarily the rich. Without the rich, who would you demand help the poor? Did he also not rail against the tricks about him donating to the poor, where he proclaimed, “…the poor we have with us always.”
And yet you have spent this entire blog bemoaning it. You basically stated that it is the root of all the evil in this world.
See here:
Yes, see below:
And there is this:
And then you said:
And yet you said this:
Yeah, we can just feel your love for America. If you hate us so much, I assume then that you are not in America. And, please tell me who are running all of these casinos?
Since you don’t link to where you get your info, I will do it for you here.
And yes, everything you copied, and the basis for that document is SOCIALISM by its very nature.
It is no business of the church to dictate that people have a “right” to work, job, medicine and food. Your rights are that which are given by GOD and are individual rights. THere is no SOCIAL RIGHT. There is no right that you have to impose upon another. Your claim to a right to a job and medicine would force another out of a job and deprive another from that medicine. Your right to a job would even deprive that evil factory owner out of income he could have used to repair his factory, or upgrade its safety equipment.
I suggest that you go read Russian history and how their markets collapsed due to equality and forced employment. Also, take a look at France right now and how horrible their economy is due to forced implementations of labor.
I am not an advocate for socialism nor is the church. If you read the whole Social Agenda Of the Catholic Church Im sure you would agree. The church does have the right to teach morality and dictate what Human rights are. You have the right not to listen. When Jesus asks you: why did you acquire more than you need while others had nothing? , you can explain to him that it was your right. Good luck with that.
This is right out of the anarcho-capitalist play book and is also supported by the Church.
IV. SUBSIDIARITY
134. The teaching of the Church has elaborated the principle of
subsidiarity, according to which “a community of a higher order
should not interfere in the internal life of a community of a lower
order, depriving the latter of its functions, but rather should support
it in case of need and help to co-ordinate its activity with the activities
of the rest of society, always with a view to the common goodâ€
(CA, n. 48; cf. QA, nn. 184–186). God has not willed to reserve to
himself all exercise of power. He entrusts to every creature the functions
it is capable of performing, according to the capacities of its
own nature. This mode of governance ought to be followed in social
life. The way God acts in governing the world, which bears witness
to such great regard for human freedom, should inspire the wisdom
of those who govern human communities. They should behave as
ministers of divine providence. The principle of subsidiarity is opposed
to all forms of collectivism. It sets limits for state intervention.
It aims at harmonizing the relationships between individuals and societies.
It tends toward the establishment of true international order.
(CCC, nn. 1883–1885)
Of course I have copied the doctrine silly goose.
I am an American born and raised , 3 advanced degrees , and a world class athlete at one time ( Mcdonalds All American Basketball team.Is that American enough for you ? Oh you mean the American Indians? Yes they run casino on waist land. How different there plight if they were given valuable land.
So, because you feel bad, you think the rules of war should be changed?
Oh, and since you brought it up earlier, no, America was not founded upon slavery. Slavery was brought over to America. I bet you, being an McDonald’s All American, also knew that slavery was started by a black man. Did you also know that it was the Christian Right that pushed to get rid of slavery in America? Did you know that it was the Socialist Democrats that wanted to hold on to slavery and then founded the KKK?
Did you know that the American Indians also kept slaves and warred amongst themselves? Did you know that was even before White Man stepped foot on the shores of this land?
Please don’t get us wrong here. We are enjoying this discussion. You are at least sounding reasoned and intelligent unlike many of our local trollers here.
GC and I are at least attempting to try and get you to see your contradicting statements and your apparent hatred of America.
One thing I think we both need to clear up. Do you think what we have now is “Free Market”?
I do not. We have a modified controlled heavily-regulated market. It is no way “Free”. It has the appearance of being free. It is more free for the worker than it is for the employer. And forced unions tip this scale to where the employer barely has any rights in the work agreement.
In your example of a worker getting paid $8/hour, I think it is horrendous that the gov’t could force an employer to pay that rate if the job is not worth that much. The amount should be agreed upon between the worker and the employer. Why is there a forced amount for the low level worker, but not for the upper level management? If you really care about the poor and how much they make, would you agree then that the forced minimum wage should then be $25/hour?
2013-05-17 22:38:59
Troll cute ,I am not a troll I am the Lovebroker
Oh my Gosh excuse me ( the large majority of our founding fathers were Protestant)
Why do I have to hate America if I disagree with you?
I have lived in many differnt countries, Italy, Israel,Philippines, Germany and many others ( all of which were equally awesome.as is America
The current wage is inadequate, evidenced by the welfare state.
I am not an advocate for socialism nor is the church. If you read the whole Social Agenda Of the Catholic Church Im sure you would agree. The church does have the right to teach morality and dictate what Human rights are. You have the right not to listen. When Jesus asks you: why did you acquire more than you need while others had nothing? , you can explain to him that it was your right. Good luck with that.
This is right out of the anarcho-capitalist play book and is also supported by the Church.
IV. SUBSIDIARITY
134. The teaching of the Church has elaborated the principle of
subsidiarity, according to which “a community of a higher order
should not interfere in the internal life of a community of a lower
order, depriving the latter of its functions, but rather should support
it in case of need and help to co-ordinate its activity with the activities
of the rest of society, always with a view to the common goodâ€
(CA, n. 48; cf. QA, nn. 184–186). God has not willed to reserve to
himself all exercise of power. He entrusts to every creature the functions
it is capable of performing, according to the capacities of its
own nature. This mode of governance ought to be followed in social
life. The way God acts in governing the world, which bears witness
to such great regard for human freedom, should inspire the wisdom
of those who govern human communities. They should behave as
ministers of divine providence. The principle of subsidiarity is opposed
to all forms of collectivism. It sets limits for state intervention.
It aims at harmonizing the relationships between individuals and societies.
It tends toward the establishment of true international order.
Sorry my friend, you are way off as most people do not itemize their charitable deductions. Secondly, your condemnation of this fact shows that you are not interested in “charity” but rather government control of people’s money. That was the exact thing Gumball said you were interested in and your statement here proves it.
Even if one were to say that “charity is taking a tax break,” how much in taxes does the RCC pay on its charitable donations as income and charitable works as expenditures?
If the RCC sees this issue as you do, your own words condemn their actions.
Are you willing to say the Roman Catholic Church is wrong?
You have tried to condemn Americans for a country (in which you appear to live, I might add) on the backs of slaves and trying to kill a race of people. If you don’t see your comments as “condemnation,” I suggest you get a dictionary.
Cast stones much?
No. “Factually false” means that you have stated what you claim are “facts” without those facts being true.
For example, you claimed the Founding Fathers were all Protestants. Charles Carroll was Roman Catholic, as were Daniel Carroll and Thomas Fitzsimons. Your claim is demonstrably and factually false.
As I said, there are nations with much higher percentages of Catholics yet they suffer greater poverty and standards of living than people in the United States. If this were the “solution to poverty” as you assert, then why aren’t those countries without poverty?
See also Mark 14:7 as proof that your statement that “this will end poverty” is contrary to the teachings of Christ.
Poverty is the topic not the Catholic Church.
Excuse me, but if you say we should adopt the teachings of the Catholic Church, we must examine the effectiveness of the RCC and how it adheres to the very teachings you believe it advocates. Clearly there is a disconnect between what you say the RCC teaches and the actions of the RCC itself. The other logical conclusion is that the RCC does not adhere to its own teachings, making it no different than the Pharisees and Sadducees of Christ’s day. (See Matthew 7:15-20 for how that works out.)
As I said, you are clearly an ideologue who reacts negatively to any concepts that are contrary to what you have stated are “genius” ideas.
BTW – you hypothesized as to what would happen if Christ were to return and begin to rule. Christians know the answer to that question so there is no need to hypothesize at all. (And for the record, it is not the answer you gave.)
One of these things is not like the others…..
(And no, I am not trying to be a “grammar Nazi,” but when you bring your alleged degrees and superiority into the discussion to shut down legitimate dispute, that “superiority” becomes fair game.)
Gumball,
Please allow me to interject something here. “Lovebroker” is misrepresenting not only the very principle in which he says he believes, but the Bible as well.
I think we all agree that a person has the right to work, but that is not the same thing as others having an obligation to provide that work for him. Also the Bible is clear that those who choose not to work are not to be paid or given anything.
Lovebroker does not want the focus on the RCC or its beliefs in action because it shows either the fallacy of his position or the hypocrisy of the RCC. Notice how he condemned slavery and the history of the American Indian but failed to say anything about the numerous Papal wars. He failed to say anything about the RCC making itself rich off the backs of the peasants.
Ideologues are often the greatest hypocrites.
What are the rules of war? I’m not familiar with them?
thanks so much for the grammer/ spelling lession. That in itself negates all I have said. My secretary usually does that. Thanks old chap
And yet you insist others be forced to give things they have worked hard for, and give to those who don’t or can’t. You demand, and by your citations – the church as well, that people have certain rights that impede and infringe upon the rights of others. And, more importantly, those Socialist rights infringe upon the US Constitution, the Declaration of Independence and the Bill of RIghts.
And yet still, you write the words but don’t understand what you are writing. YOu label it a “Social Agenda” but don’t see it as Socialist in principle. Interesting.
The first part of that is correct. The second is not. GOD dictates what our rights are. Our US Constitution and Bill of Rights lay out those declared rights. It was in fact the church, the reformationists, that spread the word of freedom from government that helped free our country from the yoke of Britain. Did you know that it was a very vocal enlightened minority that actually secured our nation’s freedoms that we enjoy today?
You are right. I will. And I will proudly proclaim that if I had not, I would not be able to donate to charity, to the poor, to the church. He will look to those who made it rich through their inventions and advancements in science and bless them for their helping the poor of the world, through their making the world a better safer place to live, to help spread his message to the world at large.
You do realize what an oxy-moron is, right? If not, then please read your statement above. It was a good one.
So, wait.. you are now attacking the RCC? You are now claiming that the RCC is evil capitalist money grabbers?
You are very confusing.
I agree GC. I actually am starting to think this LB is attacking Catholicism.
Wrong again LB. The welfare state CREATED the minimum wage. Again I ask, would you be ok with the minimum wage being $25/hour?
To the victors go the spoils. The stronger\smarter will survive.
So, you would like the One World Order? Are you not aware that some believe that it will be the Catholic Church that will be the One World Religion that some think will occur right after Jesus comes to remove his faithful form the Earth? (just sayin…. some believe that religion is instead Islam)
oooooooooooooohhhhh.. that’s gotta hurt. GC is good and helpful like that. Yet, he doesn’t go around proclaiming vast intellectual knowledge while not showing it.
I’m sorry, but if you think Italy and Phillipines are equally comparable to America (prior to 10 years ago that is), then you really don’t know America. You do recall, since you have 3 advanced degrees, that Italy supported and pushed upon the world a Fascist Dictator who warred with the freedom loving countries alongside Hitler? Right?
Every corporation and please excuse grammer, spelling ect ect cause its late ,lights are out, kids are sleeping and I’m flipping tired.
every corporation ( the real tax credit recipients of 360 billion ) itemize thier deductions.
Not sure how 3 degrees and me being a former world class Athlete make me better than you? Just trying to prove I’m a real American. Their ( ha ha ) is no doubt I have forgotten more than you will ever know.
The largest Christian denomination in the USA is Catholic. Poverty is all over the USA. Was that a serious question about why other Catholic nations are poor? Because nobody not even Catholics follow the social doctrine of the Church Duhhhhh Why? because GREED IS GOOD.
Who said people are obligated to provide work ?
In the Jewish faith helping the poor is not an option, it is obligatory!!!!!!
ok lets talk RCC
no pain at all I could never spell or be gramatically correct. woooooo the new world order , one world religion yikessss you don’t have to worry about that cause you be raptured away, so no worries for you.
Italy and the Philippines are not comparable to the USA ,I meant to say they were equally cool places for very different reasons.
where are our spoils from 10 years of war?
Comment by lovebroker
You really must be tired. That made absolutely no sense.
Are you talking about the war on terrorism? Please explain how we can take land from a religion?
Thanks for clarifying. That is not what your earlier comments suggested.
I am not attacking anyone, so what did God tell you our rights are?
The Iraq war. Where are our spoils?
You’ve spent the near entirety of this blog to comment about how evil rich people are for not giving up their wealth to the poor. You also spent a great deal of space attacking America for our founding.
What rights? I’ve already mentioned them but in case you missed them during a nod-off, I direct you to the US Declaration of Independence, the US Bill of Rights, and the US Constitution.
You may peruse and study at your leisure since they are on the evil internet created and supported by evil capitalists.
I would feel comfortable with a minimum wage of $15/ hr. Like Australia which is thriving!
Are you saying God gave the USA the BOR, the us constitution, DOI…. wowee let me put my seat belt on.
Ummmm… well, you got me there. Since we did root out a cancerous dictator and restore the oil resources to the people of the land, I also felt that we should have at least had first crack at the oil that was newly pumped out using our soldier’s blood. But, that was a decision made by our Pres at the time based on the wailings and moanings of the liberals decrying that we were spilling blood for oil.
But, as every regular person knows, this is a war on terrorism, not on Iraq.
I have not called any rich people evil. I have not tried to forced any rich people to give up their wealth . My family ( well my Father is enormously wealthy). some day I will be too. I have suggested that if you want to end poverty the wealthy will have to sacrifice more than they are.
Ok, Australia is an island and there are a bit fewer people living there than here. Don’t think your analogy is sound. Yet, I’d rather live where businesses are free to operate as they see fit, in a safe manner that is.
And yes, my belief is that GOD’s providence and blessings were on this nation when it was founded. He led our founders to create a group of documents that are the best, the most free, and most sound in our history of governance. Most of our founders were GOD-believing men who fought to be free from tyranny and to freely express their religion.
If you don’t, then why are you professing the Catholic religion? A religion that has as its basis the belief in GOD and his son Jesus who died on a wooden cross and resurrected himself 3 days later? You do realize that don’t you? Do you not believe our country was founded upon and fought to be based on Judeo-christian principles?
I am perfectly ok with the wealthy keeping all of their riches and giving nothing to charity. When stewardship fails ( and make no mistake it has) what options are there to end poverty? So we just say screw em not my problem? Well not me, I will try to convince people we need to help more. Oh and Jesus said the poor would always be with us because he understood that sin will always be with us.
Of course are Founding Fathers were Christians. So God spoke to them but did not speak to those who established the Social Doctrine of the Catholic of the Church. Here in lies the rub.
Sorry. I didn’t realize that your “secretary” typed all your papers while you were gaining your alleged “three advanced degrees.”
every corporation ( the real tax credit recipients of 360 billion ) itemize thier deductions.
And that is relevant to how American citizens as individuals donate to charity how?
All evidence to the contrary.
So you are demanding that people follow the teachings of the RCC when its own adherents don’t follow it? Is that really the path you want to go down?
Not only that, as I said, the RCC itself doesn’t follow the doctrine you say is their teaching.
There are two options – either you are mistaken as to the meaning of the doctrine or the RCC is hypocritical.
I await your choice as to which one you believe is true.
You did when you talked about the wages a factory worker may receive. (Of course, there are more costs paid by the factory owner that benefit and impact the worker than just the wage he pays the worker, but I doubt you know that.)
There is no other inescapable conclusion that if a person owns a company and has the option of doing the work himself and increasing his income or giving a job to someone else, you believe the owner must give the job to someone else. That is natural extension of what you believe.
Your point?
Or are you not aware of the differences in beliefs of atonement between those of the Jewish faith and Christians?
(And don’t think it escaped my notice that you ignored Mark 14:7. Clearly Christ’s teachings show that your belief is false, but if you want to cling to a false doctrine, that is your call.)
Actually Mr. “Advanced Degrees,” the term “raptured” as in “raptured away” is neither theologically nor grammatically correct. As we know grammar isn’t your strong point, we’ll excuse that one but when you start to talk about doctrines and teachings and don’t know what terms mean, you only have displayed your ignorance. Furthermore, I notice that you failed to address the fact that you seemed to be less than familiar with what happens when Christ returns.
Care to explain why that is the case?
You really want to know? Or is this another case where you really don’t care about the answer because you think you already know?
Let’s start with the basic idea that the military has liberated more people than you can ever imagine at great cost to Americans. Now I know that you are so wrapped up in your degrees and secretary that you missed part of Christ’s teachings that say that “greater love has no man than to lay down his life for another.” (John 15:13) That is what the military does. Do you really think the Iraqis would be enjoying the level of freedom they have now if not for the military intervention?
You talk about caring for the poor and caring for people, but when the rubber meets the road, you don’t give a rat’s patootie. Once again you demonstrate that you are simply an ignorant hypocrite.
Secondly, before the Iraq conflict, the UN, the Red Cross and the Catholic Church were all saying that there were roughly 500 people in Iraq that were dying due to the lack of food under the “Oil for Food” program which Saddam had corrupted for his own gain. Many of those 500 were children. (See Matthew 18:6 for more justification as to why the US entered the area.)
So while you claim to care about the poor and children dying, when the US did something about it, you ask “where are our spoils of war?”
This following your claims that others are selfish. Once again your mantle slipped showing that you don’t care about the poor, you don’t care about saving lives and you don’t care about anything other than trying to demonstrate how superior you are.
People can see your fruit, my friend.
our
Please re-read your earlier comments.
And who is to decide how much? Who will account who has given their share and to whom? Should the money go to the people, to churches, to social organizations? Who will maintain the records?
What is poor LB? You claim that it is our nation’s capitalistic nature that is causing poor to be poorer and the hungry to starve. Yet you do realize that we are spending more and more on social welfare each and every year, yet the numbers of “poor” continue to grow each and every year?
Have you ever thought about why that is? Could it be that it is easier for people to BE poor and get social welfare than to get up and find a job?
Also, do you not know that the poor of America are far richer than the poor of the world? What the poor of America live on would make the poor of the world rich. America’s poor have cell phones, cars, air conditioning, freezers of food, large screen tv’s, and usually 3-5 kids.
Now, in sheer basic reality, if the rich were to give up their money to the poor, the poor would not be rich. FOR THIS YEAR. What about next year? Would the poor then stop being poor, go to work, and then start giving back to those formerly wealthy people?
It’s people’s thinking like yours that claim that if the wealthy were taxed more, then our gov’t would not have a debt problem. that idiotic thinking’s depth knows no end. The illogic is so apparent that it is hard to even argue.
where in the heck is GC when you need himopps (our)
And you don’t see the oxy-moronic statement there? You are perfectly ok with the wealthy keeping their money, unless I say they shouldn’t.
Wow, so much there. So being poor is a sin?
Correct. When a document conflicts with the founding documents, then it is by its nature .. conflicting. Unless you believe that our founding documents were not divinely inspired.
So you are in favor of the government mandating a higher wage?
I thought you believed in the free market?
Don’t you mean “sacrifice more than you and your father are?”
Or is it your position to try and convince others to do what you are not willing to do yourself?
Oh and Jesus said the poor would always be with us because he understood that sin will always be with us.
Actually, that is not why he said that, but even so the fact that Christ said poverty would always be with us flies in the face of your assertion that your beliefs will “end poverty.”
Or perhaps you don’t understand the meaning of the word “end?”
So God spoke to them but did not speak to those who established the Social Doctrine of the Catholic of the Church.
Ummmm…. do you realize what you have just written?
You have just destroyed the idea of a Papal Bull and the infallibility of the RCC when issuing such a “social doctrine.”
Game over.
Thanks for playing.
meant to type, .. be poor.
I have not demanded anyone do anything. I offereed a solution you reject that solution, and please don’t lecture me about Religion. One of my degrees is a Philosophy of Religion degree From the Pontifical Facualty Dominican House of Studies Washington D.C ( the Undisputed Harvard of the Religious world.)
Oh Yes I know so many poor people that just love the welfare state they are in. Your starting to get wacky. Everyone can’t be a Doctor like me, or a Indian chief like you or a Laywer ect ect..
some of your arguments lack any basis in Logic GC did you have logic in school? Fact : under federal law to receive welfare you must work at least 36 hours week.So everyone that gets welfare works ( you do know that right?
The Gumball kid brought up the spoils of war, not me…