And the world is like totally, ya know, on a collision with fossil fuels!!!!!!
Jerry Brown: People who don't believe that CO2 is overheating the planet are "troglodytes" http://t.co/xDFGbOWmPC
— Tom Nelson (@TomANelson) July 9, 2015
Ater two days of rubbing shoulders with an international collection of politicians, Gov. Jerry Brown emerged from a climate-change conference here with new partnerships in the fight against global warming.
In a speech Wednesday to government officials and environmental advocates that capped his trip, the governor took aim at “troglodytes†who deny the threat of climate change, and insisted that all aspects of modern life must be scrutinized to save the planet.
Say, I wonder what kind of troglodyte takes a fossil fueled airplane trip from California to Toronto to complain about fossil fuels?
“We have to redesign our cities, our homes, our cars, our electrical generation, our grids — all those things,†Brown said. “And it can be done with intelligence. We can get more value from less material.â€
How’s that working out in California, which has some of the highest property prices in the country, is renowned for its traffic jams, and is dealing with a dearth of water and electricity? How’s that carbon trading market working out? Oh, right, companies are leaving California.
Addressing climate change, Brown said, requires reckoning with things that have made life comfortable for billions of people.
“Oil, gas, coal has created the wealth we enjoy,†he said. “What was the source of our wealth now becomes the challenge of our future.â€
So, wait, fossil fuels created great wealth? Weird.
The conference, attended by people from across the Americas and the other side of the Atlantic, was a chance to showcase California’s growing environmental reach.
Yet again, we see people who complain about fossil fuels (and do a lot more than complain, as many are trying to shut down all fossil fuels, or at least skyrocket the cost of it) using vast amounts to attend a “climate change” conference. As Glenn Reynolds likes to write “I’ll believe it’s a crisis when people who tell me it’s a crisis start acting like it’s a crisis”. Ah, but what Warmists want is for your to be forced to act like it’s a crisis, while they themselves act in a contradictory manner and just go on with their fossil fueled lives.
BTW, we all know that there’s no better way to get people to agree with you and cooperate than calling them names.
The longer this goes on the more confused I become.
I really don’t understand what they want.
1. Anything that would help the global warming cause is usually tied up in court by their own people….AKA…DAMNS, LAKES, River run offs, Nukalar Power plants, Wind farms, Solar Farms, wind and solar installed in or near cities….
I mean every time some company tries to do any of this or the government tries to build damns they end up tied up in court for years.
2. What is it they want us to do? Cut back our Fossil Fuel useage?
3. What is it they want us to do? I can’t repeat this enough…..
there is nothing to replace fossil fuels that would sustain this world and end dependence upon fossil fuels…..Jeffery showed me a study which I analyzed quite extensively and determined it would take roughly 300 trillion dollars to end fossil fuel dependence
JUST
TO
REPLACE
ELECTRICITY GENERATION.
There is nothing to replace tractors, combines, Semi-trailers, trains that run across country not in towns….boats, planes, automobiles…….
So if we all agree yep its co2 and yes were all gonna die………..
WHATS THEIR PLAN….WHAT DO THEY WANT US TO DO?
Whats their plan to feed the world, transport the world, supply militaries against people like ISIS who will not be slowed one step because of CO2.
Whats their plan…….???
Im confused…what the hell do they want us to do?
Teach claims:
Cooperate? You expect people to believe that committed/professional Denialists will ever cooperate? If you’re not persuaded by the overwhelming evidence by now, you will not be persuaded. Denialists are not the average man on the street who can’t keep up on all the evidence. Denialist are practicing a well-organized and financed belief system driven by ideology/self-interest. What evidence would finally persuade a Denialist that man-made CO2 emissions are warming the Earth and it’s more bad than good? Crickets.
I don’t understand what drives the professional Denialists: Money? Religion? Money?Tribalism? Money? Money?
Science requires all the variables to be considered during experimentation and examination.
Let me tell you that we do not have enough ability at this point to determine global weather, especially to understand the effects, if any, use of fossil fuels have in a global/solar system.
You and Obama keep saying the science is in and you are all knowing and the rest of us are just denialists but this is where we differ.
I’m not arrogant enough of a person to think we are all knowing. I can tune into the daily weather and watch how they struggle to even acurately predict the movements of fronts.
I am wise enough to know that if you are serious enough about analyzing global weather and temperature changes that you will have to take into consideration things like the internal activities of the earth and the external activities of the earth.
So we are talking about volcanic activity, tectonic plate shifting, solar activity, magnetic polar shifting, and probably things we have not even discovered yet about our planet and universe.
And as the other commenter asked. Even if we absolutely understood the science and man made CO2 was the driving force to the end of the world what are we going to do? Seems like a catch 22. The reality is all life on Earth needs CO2 to survive… From plants to humans.
So all I really see here is that an unknown group has an interest in monopolizing the use of the most precious resource on earth, CO2, for their own gain and to hell with the rest of mankind. Meanwhile they have a bunch of useful idiots running around saying the sky is falling.
So call me a denialists. I’d rather be that then a useful idiot.
I’ll repeat Jeffery.
What do you want us to do?
Spell it out simply.
What do you want us to do to end fossil fuel use?
Again a simple question and again you just rail against the supposed well funded denialist…….
Okay….so spell it out…give us a plan….
Simple question.
What do you want us to do?
SPRINGFIELD — The fate of three nuclear power plants in Illinois is in limbo as lawmakers are poised to end their spring session without acting on legislation designed to help the owner of the electric generating facilities.
A second utility proposal is backed by a coalition of wind energy firms and environmental groups.
Gridlocked because of environmental PACS.
Nine German and Austrian utilities selling renewable energy join with green group to launch legal action against state aid for new nuclear power in UK
90 cancer victims bring lawsuit against nuclear power plant operators
A group of 17 Northern Michigan residents have filed a lawsuit claiming a new Consumers Energy wind farm has been making people sick.
Go-ahead for £27 million island windfarm 3/5/12
Construction of a £27 million windfarm on Lewis on Lewis is finally due to get underway some 11 years after the project was first mooted.
It was in November 2012 that 60 Middleville, Newport, Norway and Fairfield residents filed the lawsuit due to complaints of the noise, view and negative impact that the 37 wind turbines bring to their backyards.
Environmentalists Fight Huge Solar Plant On Behalf of 100 Sheep
Western Watersheds Project, an Idaho-based conservation nonprofit group, sued the federal government over its approval of the solar energy plant in 2011, arguing that the facility was approved without an adequate environmental assessment.
I could go on and on and on…….eveytime a windmill, nukalar power plant or solar plant tries to be built……
you got it…someone sues and its rarely Deniers….its almost always the sierra club or greenpeace….all totally all in on global warming.
Liam getting financing for a nuclear or coal fired plant is impossible. No one is willing to risk their money on a plant like that if the life expectancy is 30-50 years.What do we want ? More energy from renewables. More efficient electric grid. More financing for home generated power from solar. These are the things that europe already has.
Poor Teach look at all the warmists have done to make him alter his lifestyle and help in dropping our nation’s carbon footprint back to what it was 7 years ago.
They took away his incandescent bulbs.
The cost of electric power in the usa has remained constant in real dollars ( with inflation)
And where does that financing come from john?
You have this economic vies that money grows on trees.
Even so, the cost of energy continues to rise in Europe. Production is not meeting demand and yet people like you think the programs are a “success.”
And look what happened……
The prices of the remaining stock of incandescent bulbs went up. People had to pay more for the non-incandescent bulbs because the government gave the makers a guaranteed market. So instead of letting the supply and demand control prices, the prices went up because of the government regulations that john loves so much.
Liberals simply do not understand economics.
A collection of misdirections and zombie lies…
The science is never in, and no one is all knowing. But not knowing everything is not equivalent to knowing nothing. We know a lot about climate. The Earth is warming from CO2 humans are adding by burning fossil fuels, for example. You want 100% certainty before even discussing whether to act?
Predicting short term weather events differs from long term climate. I can’t tell you the exact temperature for Panama City July 9 2025 but July 2025 will be warm there.
Which of these are causing the current period of rapid warming? Or are we waiting for a discovery?
There’s a lot of BS to unpack in those statements. Using the sun’s energy, plants use CO2 to synthesize more complex organic compounds such as carbohydrates. Humans need plants. How much CO2 do plants and humans need? Atmospheric CO2 has ranged between 180ppm to 300ppm over the past million years or so – which is when modern humans evolved. CO2 has stayed close to 280ppm for the past 10,000 years or so (the Holocene), when the whole of human civilization evolved. Now it’s 400ppm and climbing. No reasonable person thinks that a carbon tax or cap and trade will reduce CO2 to 0ppm, so not to worry – there’ll be enough left for the plants.
In general, the right amount of a good thing doesn’t mean that more of that good thing is beneficial. 20% O2; good. 50% O2; not so good.
Unknown group? Like the UN, all governments, all scientific bodies, major religions, scientists, businesses, multinational corporations, etc?
Liam,
Stop subsidizing fossil fuel use. Let the market take care of allocating resource use. The accrued (and accruing) damages from greenhouse gases are not being directly paid by the users – we’ve given ourselves (and our corporate masters) a free ride – and it’s time to pay up. How do we account for the negative externality of pollution? (A negative externality is an unwanted adverse result secondary to an economic transaction).
Not addressing the true cost is a subsidy worth trillions to the fossil fuels industries and their investors and lobbyists (you), so it’s not surprising that a minority opposes any discussion of their subsidies.
“It’s difficult to get a man to understand something if his salary depends on him not understanding.” — Upton Sinclair
We have been down this path before and your points made no more sense then than they do today.
The fossil fuel industry receives the same breaks as other industries. Those breaks are not subsidies. However, if you really want the market to work, then eliminate the actual subsidies to solar and wind companies. I am sure that you are for a level playing field when it comes to the market, aren’t you?
(We all know the answer to that one.)
Says the guy who wants others to do what he will not do when it comes to his industry and his income.
Really? What other industries have added as much CO2 to the atmosphere?
blah blah blah says the a-hole who says blah blah blah…
You’re as boring as Liam
They took away his incandescent bulbs.
Hate to burst your bubble but you can still buy incandescent bulbs.
Fine now you have generated more electricity……..
How are you going to feed the planet by eliminating fossil fuels because now you can generate your own electricity?
sorry scientific facts bore you
http://priceofoil.org/fossil-fuel-subsidies/
According to these fellahs………the USA subsidizes fossil fuels to the tune of about 37-50 billion per year…..NOT all of This is actually money given to the energy companies but rather low cost loans etc.
now
Internationally, governments provide at least $775 billion to perhaps $1 trillion annually in subsidies.
The USA’s contribution to oil subsidies appears to be on the order of about 5-7 percent of the total subsidies given to the Fossil fuel industry.
now why do you suppose EVERYONE…..and I DO MEAN EVERYONE subsidizes fossil fuels?
Because my friends its called national security…..without it you dont run your army, navy, airforce and marines. You don’t float your boats, fly your planes and transport your society.
You don’t feed your people.
unless and until you can come up with a plan that is workable and FEEDS the masses using windmills and solar panels…..
Im guessing your not going to get this kind of subsidies.
But wait……. One of the primary U.S. subsidies for solar power, for instance, is the so-called investment tax credit, which gives solar-project developers a tax break according to the amount of money they spend on building the solar farm. That tax break isn’t pegged to the amount of electricity that the solar farm produces. So a higher-priced, inefficient solar farm can get more subsidy than a lower-priced, efficient one. China and various European countries also have rolled out subsidies that encourage big spending over big energy production. That’s wonderful for renewable-energy lobbies, but it’s lousy for the taxpayers or electricity-bill payers who foot the subsidy bills.
and from a forbes article……As the chief executive of a solar technology company, no one wants an abundant supply of clean energy and a healthy solar energy industry more than I do. And the best pathway to a stable renewable energy industry is to create self-sufficiency and independence from government financial assistance.
OIL and GAS revenue from oil companies…… https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_oil_and_gas_companies_by_revenue
Here you can find why oil companies do not chase subsidies….they are a PITTANCE and I have no issues what so ever with ending them……..But as the CEO of an alternative energy company says….we have to be profitable to succeed rather then chase subsidies……
and now you know the rest of the story.
brown is alike all the left wing abusers .. they line the pockets of their sycophants and pals while abusing the people
As always, you refuse to take all subsidies into account. NOT requiring the fossil fuel industry and their customers (us!) to take responsibility for their actions is the biggest subsidy of all.
It’s similar to the “too big to fail” subsidy of Wall Street – hard to price but worth trillions.
So once again your true stripes show thru…you want to END FOSSIL FUELS because they are bad for all of us…..
Its not about the subsidies but about the impact of fossil fuels.
In truth we could end the subsidies today and the oil companies would keep on ticking…Its just everything would be more expensive….as in gasoline at one time was over 4.00 per gallon when we went into the massive last recession……..
Two things happened that broke the back of the economy…..
1. January 2007 the democratic controlled house passes a raise in minimum wage……
2. World food prices increased dramatically in 2007 and the 1st and 2nd quarter of 2008[1] creating a global crisis and causing political and economical instability and social unrest in both poor and developed nations.
3. World oil prices rose from $50 per barrel in early 2007 to $140 per barrel in the summer of 2008, before falling to $40 per barrel by the end of that year.\
To wit: The great recession…..According to the U.S. National Bureau of Economic Research (the official arbiter of U.S. recessions) the U.S. recession began in December 2007 and ended in June 2009, and thus extended over 19 months.
Now the question is why did food prices dramatically escalate during the exact same time frame that oil prices SPIKED DRAMATICALLY to 140 per barrel during the EXACT same time.
CAUSING SUCH STRESS ON PEOPLES pocket books as to bring about global recession.
and you want to end subsidies on oil and spike the price of oil because you think it will…….
fuk I dont know what you think but its not rooted in any kind of logic that would not end in anything other then another great recession……
and now you know the rest of the story.
Liam,
You’re an ignorant idiot. You’re not empty headed – your head is filled with misinformation.
The global recession resulted from the burst housing bubble, not inflation.
J-“Denialists are practicing a well-organized and financed belief system….” Well, if being well organized and well financed is somehow “bad”, then the climate astrology movement, backed by governments around the world with billions of dollars, has the “denialist” movement dwarfed many times over. But what’s amusing is Jeffery making a point for the realist side without even knowing it. Thanks, J. Jeffery-“stop subsidizing fossil fuel use.” As gitarcarver said, we’ve been down this road before. Poor J keeps trying, though. As said before, the fossil fuel industry by and large receives tax breaks, like thousands of of other companies. Tax breaks are not subsidies, even though J can’t get that through his head. Subsidies are are money handouts from governments to prop up industries they want to succeed that can’t make it on their own, like most “green” companies. There’s no exchange of money with tax breaks. The money is yours to begin with, and you get to keep a little more of it.
I purposely left out the housing bubble because we are talking about oil/subsidies and its effects on the economy.
I’m sorry you can’t stay on task.
I simply pointed out more facts of which you always try to turn facts into lies as you try to discredit me.
Again….I ask a question and you deflect the question with an assault on my character.
The housing bubble had nothing to do with oil prices spiking and the resulting chaos it created around the world……Collapsing housing markets had nothing to do with food shortage around the globe in 2007-2008.
The point was simple….sorry if you failed to grasp the significance of the scenario.
1. Oil Spiked….Food prices spiked….riots ensued.
2. Oil spiked and people kept right on buying gasoline and running their electrical machines.
3. Oil then collapsed and the oil industry kept right on selling oil because the world still needed oil and gas and natural gas to function.
Im sorry this is so hard for you to understand….perhaps I will simplify my posts in the future.
a. oil went up…food went up….shit hit the fan….not good for mankind…..
Sometimes Americans who never leave our shores dont realize that about 90 countries around the world do not have a dime invested in the USA and the fact that their economy would implode has little to no consequences for them. However these same people do rely upon energy to run their own economies….that economy is OIL/NATURAL GAS…….and I dare you to explain to me why oil spiked, food spiked in the middle of a housing bubble causing riots in areas that were not the remotest affected by the housing bubble in the USA.
Liam,
You’re a well-practiced prevaricator and a charlatan.
You purposely left out the most important cause of the Great Recession to make your dishonest point? You do that a lot. I recall last week you posting a false story about Paul Krugman and then lying about it when caught. You do that a lot.
Grow some spine, man.
It’s rich that you whine about others criticizing your character. It’s your primary tactic. Along with making up “facts”.
Its not a whine Jeffery. You simply refuse to debate anything. Your standard response to anything you fail to comprehend is to call me names. I post facts and figures and you call me a liar.
The biggest charlatan around here is you who only has opinions he passes off as facts….I post facts and support them with evidence and you call me a lair and a charlatan.
Its too bad you can not comprehend the world wide chaos the AGW truthers are trying to inflict upon this world……
US Deniers do….and when the day comes that you can feed the world without fossil fuels I will be in your corner…..
Until then…..you and your agw truthers are whackos who havent a clue other then…..
The earth is warming and co2 is rising therefor it must be fossil fuels and anything that challenges this mantra is met by you with the standard……..
RULE 11. You should look in the mirror Jeffery if you want to see what a charlatan looks like.
As for me I always post facts and figures that are proven because I dont want to have to defend Lies.
Are you back to reading just 3 lines of my posts? I explained to you that we are and were talking about oil and subsidies and how this caused a world wide recession.
The burst of the housing market did not cause Somalia to go into recession, Or Liberia or Tazmania or Thailand or Laos or Cambodia…etc…etc…etc.
Again you like all AGW truthers have your eyes set on the countries that HAVE…those that have wealth….because you so badly want to take that wealth away…….
I explained to you that many of the countries hurt by the world wide recession were hurt because while they had no dog in the housing bubble….they all have a dog in the oil/gas./energy markets….
And when energy spiked….food spiked causeing world wide food shortages…….
This is what you wish to unleash on the poor countries…..As I have stated Progressives want the worlds populations to die because you guys are terrified of an overpopulated world.
Progressives are so racist you would stand by and constantly watch poor people die without lifting a hand because it aids with population control….You abort fetus’s because it aids with population control…….you hate the catholic church because they forbid CONDOMS which does NOT regulate population growth.
The cats been out of the bag for quite some time now Jeffery…….your agenda is far more sinister then the HEALTH of the PLANET…..its the genocide of the poor that gives you great comfort….
Because everyone, even poor countries know what the lack of fossil fuels does to the world.
Everyone it seems except you.