On the surface, red flag laws seem to make sense. Someone is making threats, acting in a crazy manner, and so forth, and a family member or LEO can make a petition which will have their firearms taken away for a period of time, and a judge must rule on this. Much like when a person is involuntarily committed. And we have
Marco Rubio: Red Flag Legislation ‘Makes All the Sense in the World’
U.S. Sen. Marco Rubio, R-Fla., continues his push for the U.S. Senate to look at his “red flag†safety proposal, taking to the TV airwaves in Florida to showcase it.
In the aftermath of the mass shootings in El Paso and Dayton this past weekend, earlier this week, Rubio urged U.S. Senate Judiciary Chairman Lindsey Graham, R-SC, and U.S. Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., the top Democrat on the committee, to look at his “Extreme Risk Protection Order and Violence Prevention Act†in their next meeting.
Rubio first introduced this bill in March of 2018, following the Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School shooting in Parkland. That same year, Florida implemented its own red flag law, which has provided Florida law enforcement agencies with the ability to carry out more than a thousand risk protection orders.
Then to Rick Scott
I’m a gun owner and NRA member. I support red-flag laws.
In Florida, about three weeks after the Parkland shooting — and after the views of experts in mental health, education and law enforcement were taken into account — I signed the Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School Public Safety Act into law, surrounded by the families of those who tragically lost their lives.
Now, in the aftermath of the shootings in El Paso and Dayton, Washington should stop the partisan bickering and get to work on solutions. The steps we took in Florida, in addition to committing $400 million to increasing school safety, included a “red flag†provision. Properly constructed, the extreme risk protection order, as it’s known, is a common-sense public safety measure.
Anyone who has threatened self-harm, has threatened to harm others or is mentally unstable should not have access to a gun. At all. You can call it an infringement on rights if you want. I don’t care. Just get guns away from such people.
And
McConnell: Background checks, red flag laws will be ‘front and center’
Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell said Thursday that strengthening background checks and red flag laws will “lead the discussion†on addressing gun violence in the wake of two mass shootings that left at least 31 people dead.
McConnell’s remarks on a Kentucky news radio show follow a conversation he had Thursday morning with President Donald Trump, who has called for revisiting stricter background checks for gun buyers as well as red flag laws, which allows authorities to limit a person’s access to guns if they pose an imminent threat to others.
So, even Trump is thinking about them. Now, on the surface, they seem good. But, what if no one reports the person? The mother of the El Paso nutter (news of the Dayton nutter has rather dried up since he is a Democrat through and through) called the cops, but, did not identify herself or her son. What if they are abused? The system is ripe for people making false claims, leading to seizure of lawfully obtained property, with the person having to wait a long time before the property is returned, and, they don’t really work well
(Reason) Seventeen states and the District of Columbia have adopted such laws, most of them since the February 2018 massacre at a high school in Parkland, Florida. Although preventing mass shootings is the goal emphasized by advocates of red flag laws, data from Indiana and Connecticut, the first two states to enact them, show they are mainly used to protect people from their own suicidal impulses.
The evidence on whether they succeed in doing that is mixed, and so far there’s no firm evidence that red flag laws prevent homicide. One thing is clear: Taking away people’s guns based on predictions of what they might do with them raises thorny due process issues.
The Washington Post also notes the mixed results. And many have noted that they violate the 4th Amendment due process. The state cannot just come and take part of your land without a long hearings process, right? Now, if there was a guarantee that a court hearing would be held within 48 hours, it might be OK. A hearing in which someone did not have to lawyer up, costing them a lot of money. Really, the state should pay for a lawyer (a good one), since the State too away the accused’s property.
Is due process inverted?
Indy has a 14 day waiting period studies found was average 9 months. What is wait?
Is there right to legal representation?
What is the standard of proof?
What is the deterrent for abuse, does it include promise of civil suit?
Senator, please discuss. https://t.co/075PYvpJ6b— Dana Loesch (@DLoesch) August 9, 2019
That’s the beginning of a long thread, worth the read.
The problem with red flag laws, like most of the Gun Grabbers agenda, is that they want them because it is a way to start taking away people’s guns. They slowly make them broader and broader. Chuck Schumer is warning McConnell that they best not be tepid.
If crafted correctly, they would be very specific, with little to no ability for executives and bureaucrats to rule make and expand. Here’s the law, here’s how it works, don’t go further, no mission creep. Period. If you want to change the law, it should require a 2/3rds majority to change it. Seriously, some people shouldn’t have firearms, just like some shouldn’t be allowed to drive. They’ve forfeited their Right through their own actions.
Now, though, consider, does a red flag law belong at the national level? On the surface it seems like something that states should do, right? But, the 2nd Amendment is a federal thing. Who better to implement than the U.S. Congress? And, get this: if one is passed, that is the law of the land. It would set the standard, and mean that states and municipalities cannot go further than the national red flag law. Liberals told us this when we were debating Arizona’s illegal alien law, SB1070, which was stronger than federal law. They all said that that was not allowed! So, trying to make any red flag law stronger than the federal one would nip that in the bud, putting gun grabbing states on notice that they cannot use red flag laws for backdoor confiscation gun grabbing.
Don’t have a problem with this law IF….and there is a big IF here. I mean the slippery slope to this bill is so obvious it is painful for gun owners. Everyone can be targeted at a Red Flag when purchasing a weapon.
So my IF is that They define who is to be included in Red Flag alerts, not broad generalizations and secondly the government must prove they are correct in taking away the guns and the entire cost is upon the government with ZERO legal costs being absorbed by the Flaggee…..I already seeing the states drag this out to punish someone they dont like politically, drag him/her through the courts and force them to endure heavily legal costs to the point they are unable to defend themselves.
Pass the right bill and I am all for it. Crazies should not own guns but define crazies. Not someone who is a republican that said something once on facebook 10 years ago. Someone making active threats. The search must be narrow.
Unfortunately if the GOP puts a bill on the desk the left will add a 1000 things to it making it impossible to pass. Then USE IT IN THE ELECTION proclaiming the right in unwilling to work with them on gun legislation and they want their white supremicists to keep killing people.
YOu know they will no matter which side of the aisle you live on. that is why I would be shocked that any bill gets passed this year or next.
Trojan Btfsplk.
Shouting “Fire!” in a crowded theater could cause a panic which can result in people being injured or even killed, yet we have no laws under which someone can demand that someone else, whom they believed to be disturbed, be banned from entering a theater.
We actually had something similar go to the Supreme Court, in New York Times Company v United States, in which the Supreme Court held that prior restraint of the newspaper’s freedom of the press because the publication of the so-called ‘Pentagon Papers’ might be harmful was not allowable.
This whole thing stinks of Minority Report, in which the authorities know, in advance, who is planning on committing a crime and punish him pre-emptively. It is an attempt on the part of some people to suspend the constitutional rights of someone else because a third person thinks he might act illegally; that’s bovine feces!
But this has nothing to do with “their own actions.” Instead, it has to do with what other people fear they might do, not with what they have already done.
We know that
JeffreyJeffery is a hunter, who owns firearms. Well, Hell, from his writings on this fine site, I believe him to be mentally unstable, totally deranged, non compos mentis, and think that I ought to be able to tell the state of Missouri that they need to send in the gendarmarie to seize his weapons. After all, who can tell what a dangerous person like him might do; he might even shoot a deer out of season!We should not support the ‘Red Flag’ laws. They have the State judging people to be guilty of a crime not yet committed.
Kentucky senator McConnell has said he would consider red flag laws and universal background checks; he fears his next election. Kentuckians would be advised to call McConnell and Rand Paul and share their concerns, rather than spending their time whining on blogs.
“You can have my gun when you pry it from my cold, dead hands!”
No, Cocaine Mitch does not fear the next election. Only the bunny suit does.
The WaPo is pushing this link and all the trolls are in lockstep. See Don Surber’s article, Don’t go Ann Coulter over a Washington Post story.
Then there’s my advice, anything Jeffery says, take the opposite direction.
Edward Sibley Doucher is incapable of learning.
https://ditchmitchfund.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/KentuckyMemoFeb21.pdf
“A new Public Policy Polling survey of registered voters in Kentucky finds an unnamed Democratic challenger within the margin of error against Senator Mitch McConnell. McConnell gets 45% of the vote compared to 42% of voters who say they’d vote for his Democratic opponent. Just 32% say they think he deserves to be reelected, while 61% think it’s time for someone new.”
The GOP, trump and their minions are very concerned.
Moscow Mitch may be up against:
Amy M. McGrath is an American former Marine fighter pilot and political candidate. She was the first female Marine Corps pilot to fly the F/A-18 on a combat mission. McGrath served for 20 years in the Marine Corps during which time she flew 89 combat missions bombing al Qaeda and the Taliban. In 2016, she was inducted into the Aviation Museum of Kentucky’s Hall of Fame and her military story is described in Band of Sisters: American Women at War in Iraq.
McGrath graduated from the United States Naval Academy with a Bachelor of Science in political science. McGrath received a graduate certificate in legislative studies from Georgetown University in 2011. She earned an actual Master of Arts in international and global security studies from Johns Hopkins University. And didn’t lie about getting an MBA from Wharton.
She worked as a congressional fellow for Representative Susan Davis’s (D-CA) office in Washington, D.C., as a defense and foreign affairs advisor for one year. From 2012 to 2014, she worked at the Pentagon at the Headquarters Marine Corps, Strategy & Plans Division, International Affairs Branch as a Marine Corps liaison to the Department of State and the US Agency for International Development. From 2014 to 2017, McGrath taught U.S. government to midshipmen as a senior political science instructor at the United States Naval Academy.
She retired as a USMC Lt Colonel. She is married to a Navy Lt Commander, a lifelong Republican. They have 3 children.
Buh bye, Moscow Mitch. He’ll have to steal the election or have Colonel McGrath meet with an accident.
The GOP, Trump, and their minions take no notice.
PPP of registered voters 16 months before the election? You must be joking.
Come back in a year with one using likely voters.
Why would KY give up the influence of a Senate Majority Leader for yet another Lefty Marine at the bottom of the seniority list?
The Sixth District, where I happen to live, is the second most liberal congressional district in the Bluegrass State, because it contains Lexington. Prior to Mr Barr, the district was represented by Democrat Ben Chandler. If Mrs Henderson could not beat Mr Barr in the district, her chances against Senator McConnell, who has never lost an election, are very slim.
In 2016, Donald Trump beat Hillary Clinton by the whopping margin of 62.52% to 32.68%. Mrs Clinton carried two counties, Jefferson and Fayette (basically Louisville and Lexington), Fayette just barely at 51.19% and Jefferson with 54.05%. There were many counties in which Mrs Clinton got less than 20% of the vote, and three counties, Jackson, Leslie and Martin, in which she got less than 10%.
Mrs Henderson ain’t gonna beat Mr McConnell.
Mr McConnell, fears his next election?
he has never lost an election, Mr Dowd, despite some attempts by the Democrats to put up strong challengers against him.
In 2014, the Democrats had some real hope, with the candidacy of Secretary of State Alison Lundergan Grimes. An attractive woman, who had already won a statewide race, and am member of the Lundergan family, who’ve long been strong in state democratic circles, she gave the Democrats hope.
She was defeated in a landslide.
Thus far, we have one candidate, another Democratic hope, Amy McGrath Henderson, but one who still lost to Representative Andy Barr (R-KY 6), in the second most liberal district in the Bluegrass State, and she’s already made a couple of gaffes so far. There’s a sports radio host who’s considering running.
There’s no doubt about it: President Trump will carry Kentucky by a wide margin, and Mitch McConnell will win re-election easily.
Now we understand why Dana has no guns. The authorities read his writings and confiscated them.
OK, that was a good one, but please, in Kentucky? Even in Pennsylvania? California, maybe.
Same here. Missouri is gun country.
No that’s you and your imaginary arsenal.
Yikes! McConnell and trump are both talking about universal background checks and red flag legislation.
Yes, yes we know, they are just responding to current citizen concerns and will drop it as soon as the media get distracted.
McConnell has already said they’ll take it up in the fall.
There is a consistency here though. Domestic terrorist attacks like these frighten Americans, and fear is what a demagogue such as trump depends on for support. His campaign staff is working hard to find how to use this fear to his advantage.
Elwood, do you NOW AND FOREVER trust the people in government now and forever in the future not to take your life, Liberty or property through force of government? If the answer to that question is “No” then the gun control debate is over!
Talk about demagogues, Elwood.
Now and forever I pledge to never support or propose policies to take all firearms from Americans. Never have, never will. I have two gun safes with pistols, shotguns and rifles.
But it’s a fantasy to think our personal guns will stop an authoritarian government takeover of America. Our efforts must focus on preventing authoritarianism.
Do you oppose trump and McConnell talking favorably of red flag and strengthened background check policies, in the face of a much weakened NRA?
He lies (there’s a surprise). And, if he has any firearms, it’s because he’s afraid of all the people in his diverse neighborhood who didn’t invite him to the big 4th of July block party.
He also doesn’t want us to remember the American Revolution and why there’s a 2nd Amendment.
The more you see the Lefties pushing these red flag laws, the more you should be wary of them.
Always consider the source; in this case, the WaPo and Joe Manchin. Like the bunny suit, they would love to stampede the Rs into something that would cost them the election.
I see Jeffery wants to invoke demagogues (takes one to know one). Then, by all means, let’s remember, “Never let a good crisis go to waste”, and keep in mind who the real demagogues are
Edward S. Doucher (The Douche) never learns.
The GOP controls our White House (like never before), our Senate, not to mention most statehouses and our Supreme Court.
And someone is worried that Sen Manchin and a newspaper controls the gov’t?
Did they make McConnell and trump say what they did about background checks and mental health? trump and McConnell are politicos first – their concern is self-preservation and power. They’re both standing right now with their fingers in the air, and will make their decisions based on that. They understand they need to pull in normal Americans without alienating their far-right coalition.
Old rule of politics:
The one who’s losing runs to the press first. Aided by their minions (that’s you), they’re trying to create the image Trump and Cocaine Mitch are going to cave
Believe it when you see it.
One more thing.
See where Epstein committed Arkancide?
trumpicide
Funny how after the first “suicide attempt” they did not take adequate precautions. Bill and Hillary can once again sleep peacefully. Unless there are tapes and DVD’s and a hostile Executor. But then it’s just another Arkancide. Shit happens.
Bill Barr once again serves trump well. All that’s required for “suicide” is supplying a suicidal person with the means.
Has trump promised Barr 10s of millions of dollars to serve him? First, Barr put his finger on the scale by his early false summary of the Mueller report, and now he let The Witness No Rich Man Wanted die in his custody.
And once again Bubba breathes a sigh of relief. Hillary cackles and pours another drink. Little sissybitch makes up more shit.
Nothing to see here.
Lolgf loser.
A lot of new info is about to come out, so Willie isn’t out of danger yet.
Trump had the most to lose
Not Bill
And Trump has the NY mafia as well as the entire DOJ behind him
The Mafia run that Federal lock up and trump has been in bed with them for decades
You think something as big as that could not have happened without their ok and assistance ??
Federal prosecutions in Italian organized crime have been noticeably decreasing since Trump appointed his Federal Attorney General
I was not aware Epstein the child molester was in Bill Barr’s custody. It just proves that like The Mafia, the Clinton Crime Family can get to anyone, any where. Now THAT was a Red Flag Operation!
Beside, Hillary apologized for Epstein’s suicide last week.
If Barry wanted Epstein dead, he would have gotten him the first time.
No, this is Arkancide, but possibly too late.
Well since Bill Clinton was logged on the happy time flights over 20 times It would be more likely that the Clintons had him rubbed out with Russian agents……lololol.
Even Joe Scarborough is convinced it was the Russians who rubbed Epstein out. Your right many people are breathing easier right now including the democratic party and the Clintons.
Another nitwit who paraded around Las Vegas in body armor and carrying an AR-15 type rifle as a crime fighter was arrested for allegedly planning to bomb a synagogue.
“A man who authorities say worked as a security guard has been arrested and accused of plotting to firebomb a Las Vegas synagogue or a bar catering to LGTBQ customers, officials said Friday. Conor Climo, 23, of Las Vegas, was arrested Thursday by an FBI-led anti-terrorism task force.
Court documents say Climo communicated by encrypted internet chat with people identified as white supremacists, and told an FBI informant in recent weeks that he was scouting places to attack.”
Is this more deep state overreach?
Since we only have what you want us to know, it’s a little hard to tell.
But, having done a little research on my own, I learned this guy was a security guard in Vegas who wanted to start an armed neighborhood patrol. The reason was not in the story. He was not charged with any violation.
He was busted after an FBI agent engaged him in conversation online while surveilling a white extremist group. Since the piece was from Commie News Net and doesn’t mention a political affiliation, I think we can safely agree this was another bunch of Lefties like the guys in Dayton and El Paso.
Overreach?
Well, if you’re comfy with the heavy Gestapo/NKVD vibes coming from this, I guess it’s all white.
Climo is a member of the neo-Nazi Atomwaffen Division.
https://www.fox5vegas.com/news/local/fbi-arrests-las-vegas-man-accused-of-plotting-to-attack/article_a2e150fe-bb03-11e9-8e30-2b97402c2afe.html
Should the FBI be in the business of stopping white supremacist terrorist attacks or only investigating them once they occur?
Russians are training right-wing terrorists…
https://www.thedailybeast.com/russian-extremists-are-training-right-wing-terrorists-from-western-europe
We’re using the Daily Beast as a source?
Sure, and after that, we’ll fact check it on Snopes.
Can anyone guess why Russia is interested in disrupting Western societies??
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/the-global-machine-behind-the-rise-of-far-right-nationalism/ar-AAFCPrY?ocid=spartanntp#image=AAFCPrY_1|1
Well, MSLSD is the most trusted source for lunatic news.
Could there be one sane liberal left on the planet? https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2019/08/a-righteous-saturday-night-rant.php
Wait-did someone claim there could be a sane lib left on the planet? https://i0.wp.com/www.powerlineblog.com/ed-assets/2019/08/IMG_1941.jpg?w=737&ssl=1
Are the gun grabbers going to try and take away are machine pidtols with dual 50 round drums like the guy in El Paso that tried to single handily stop the INVASION of our country ?
Of course not. He’s a Red.
John, what exactly is a “machine pistol with duel 50 round magazines” and what company manufactures it? Do you have a picture?
It’s an old Schmeisser fitted out by BA Baracus.
I found it. Actually it’s a modified Glock.
https://youtu.be/pOCuegVxrpc
One could kill a lot of Muslims, Mexicans or Irish in a hurry with a couple of those!!
Now that the bunny suit is spending more time drinking in the John, he sounds truly ridiculous.
Trump tossed Epstein out of Mar-A-Lago while Willie was on 26 flights to Sex Slave Island and even threw a party there, but it’s Trump who has the most to lose.
And this thing about Federal prosecution of “Italian” organized crime? Where did he find that? The Weekly World News?