Can we call them bipartisan warmongers? There’s certainly a smattering on all sides who are pushing to keep giving more and more to Ukraine
Russia Wants a Long War
The West Needs to Send Ukraine More Arms, More Quickly
U.S. President Joe Biden’s historic visit to Kyiv days before the one-year anniversary of Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine sent an important message to Ukrainians and, indeed, to Russians. “Ukraine will never be a victory for Russia,” Biden proclaimed, adding that the United States will support Ukraine “as long as it takes.” Indeed, “as long as it takes” has become the new talking point for Ukraine’s allies, repeated by French President Emmanuel Macron and German Chancellor Olaf Scholz. But “as long as it takes” also signals to many Ukrainians that the allies expect the war to drag on for years, with Ukraine bearing the brunt of it. And they are right: even as the United States and its allies have sent billions of dollars’ worth of military equipment to Ukraine, there remains one thing they seem unable to supply: a clear, united commitment to a rapid Ukrainian victory. Unless the United States wants to find itself embroiled in another forever war, on terms that very much suit Russian President Vladimir Putin, it’s time for that to change. (snip)
By the same token, nothing is exactly on the table, either. This ambiguity has resulted in a Western policy of incrementalism, setting the United States and Ukraine’s other allies up for a protracted conflict. This approach is encouraging Putin to believe that time is on his side and that the United States will eventually tire, as it did in Afghanistan, especially as political winds shift with a U.S. presidential election on the horizon. The policy, while ostensibly seeking to avoid escalation, is laying the ground for something far more dangerous for the United States and its allies: a potential Russian win.
So, basically, send more and bigger weapons right now. And they never really come to a realistic conclusion of what Putin would do. Or, they’re just ignoring that this could very easily start WWIII. I just do not understand this mindset. It’s not like sending lots of arms to Great Britain early in WWII, which then saw the U.S. dragged in. Russia has nuclear weapons. Then you have China in the wings, who could take advantage. And Iran and North Korea.
— Evi L. Bloggerlady (@MsEBL) March 16, 2023
From the link
Ron DeSantis came out against our current blank check n’ hack cliches Ukraine policy, stating the indisputable truth that Ukraine was not a vital US interest worthy of risking World War III with Russia. The next day he was proven right when a Russian SU-27 knocked a US Reaper drone into the Black Sea. Hey, feeding Russians (and Ukrainians) into a meat grinder is all fun and games until we get dragged into the abattoir too. Of course, all the right people got really mad about it – when Bill Kristol, Adam Kinzinger, David French, Max Boot and Mitt Romney are all for something, you need to be against it. Hardest hit was the GOP establishment – it was very sad because the governor refuses to be dragged along into cheerleading yet another massive foreign policy failure.
Where are all the left wing anti-war groups and folks? The Democrat elites are cheerleading the continuous funding and escalation, even lunatics like AOC. Kurt Schlichter continues
Americans are not pacifists, but they are sick of failure, and that’s what Ukraine is looking to become. Most Americans feel that Ukraine is corrupt, which it totally is – I saw it personally. They feel sympathy for the Ukrainians, as do I (I trained Ukrainian soldiers in Ukraine for the Army). And they agree with DeSantis that this territorial dispute – which it is – is not a vital American interest that overcomes other priorities and that is worth endless treasure and maybe even blood. We generally hope Ukraine wins, but this is not our fight. Nor is the war likely to spread to NATO countries where we have treaty obligations – the idea that we need to retake Crimea so the Russians don’t show up in Berlin, much less London, is ridiculous. Americans are not prepared to put up with this conflict forever, but forever wars that culminate in embassy helicopter evacuations and people falling off C-17s are what the Beltway buffoons do. (snip)
DeSantis has taken the smart strategic position and the smart political position. He has shown leadership, because the American people will soon come to be where he is now, and they will do so around the time when the election gets into high gear.
I think people are really getting there already. I can’t speak for you, but, I’m seeing a pretty big smattering of people in Real Life with very different political beliefs opting out. They do not want all this money given to Ukraine, nor all the arms, and definitely not an escalation. As Schlichter notes later, there is no coherent strategy by the U.S., and people see this. It’s just not worth risking WWIII for Ukraine.
Teach wants to “cut and run”
Appease the bulky, hope t he at Putin bc will stop after h we to akes Ukraine which provides the world with 10% of global wheat exports.
Ignore the fact that multiple US presidents have given our pledge to o defend the sovereignty of Ukraine. Pretend t he at all of our European allies will no longer think that the USA will stand with them when we are needed
Shake in fear at the thought of giving Ukraine 31 of our 8000 Abrams tanks?
Spend 2 trillion on a doomed effort in Afghanistan and cry over 100billion in aid to Ukraine?
Get some backbone Teach,grow a pair. Confront evil.
Do you really think Putin will stop after Ukraine ?????
Don’t let nuclear bullies like Putin or Kim do whatever they want.
Why don’t you “grow a pair” you loud mouthed clown and go to join thr Ukes? Teach confronts evil evry day with commies like you at this site. We have NO agreement with Ukraine to defend them and if our European allies will no longer think that the USA will stand with them when we are needed then NATO means nothing. You are a dangerous and deluded war monger and a nazi sympathizer.
The left always accuse being against this war as meaning that you must support Vladimir Putin.
Actually, our esteemed host, as well as I, don’t want to get more deeply involved, so there’s no cutting and running.
I’m old enough to remember Vietnam, and how providing material support for South Vietnam was never enough. President Kennedy then sent in ‘advisers,’ to ‘train’ the ARVN to fight the Communists. Eventually, 58,220 Americans gave their lives in Vietnam, with another 304,000 wounded, and South Vietnam still fell to the Communists.
History tells us that when simply providing Ukraine with more and more war materiel isn’t enough, American troops get directly involved.
Perhaps, just perhaps, our distinguished host has already figure it out, that fighting a war, directly on Russia’s borders, while we’re at the end of a 5,000 mile supply line, just might be another doomed effort.
Grow a pair yourself, if you want to get involved so badly. There are foreign mercenaries and ‘volunteers,’ including some Americans, who are fighting with the Ukrainians. At this point, they’ll certainly welcome the help of anyone who’ll pick up a rifle and go to help them fight. You can be 16 or 60, they’ll accept your help!
Conmenter:
When one runs out of arguments… Recall that deskbound ‘patriots’ called all who didn’t support the invasion and occupation of Iraq cowards and traitors rather than pick up a rifle themselves.
If Putin respects/fears Trump so much, why doesn’t BigDon tell Putin to stop killing Ukrainians?
The distinguished Mr Dowd wrote:
Perhaps Mr Dowd missed Mr H’s comment that our host needed to “Get some backbone Teach,grow a pair,” a clear statement that Mr Teach was cowardly. I turned it around on him.
Well if the right supports Putin then by definition the left supported Osama Bin Laden, the Taliban and the raping of women, the killing of Gays and the destruction of historical artifacts for religious purposes.
I wonder. Who is the worst despot. Those that would sneak into America and blow us up or those who are conscripted to fight in a war they do not believe in are have fled the country making the USA exodus to Canada look like a joke.
Sep 27, 2022 … The Kremlin dispatched federal security forces to frontier border crossings packed with Russian men trying to escape the draft by enterin
Even the Russian people are OPPOSED TO THIS WAR and yet somehow the Right in America are evil unpatriotic douchebags for opposing this war along with the RUSSIAN PEOPLE.
Sad for the left, they have become war mongers and China defenders using Science as their god. NOT ALL SCIENCE IS GOOD…..JUST ASK THESE URANIUM BOMBS WAITING TO DESTROY THE EARTH OR THOSE VIRUSES IN LABS THAT CAN RAZE THE PLANET.
Science vs GOD….I know advocates of both do GOOD THINGS. Sometimes they do bad things. That is no reason to deny either. It is just that neither side likes to have their GOD QUESTIONED even if it means the killing of millions of JEWS or the slaughter of the entire world because we can’t get along with each other.
Science or GOD…that is what politics has come down to in 2023.
The only leader current that is pure evil is Joe Biden.
Mr 7134 wrote:
You give him too much credit; he’s more a dumbass than evil.
Exactly, that is the most evil.
After all the wrong-headed wars, conflicts and invasions the ‘American’ right have supported over the decades, when Big Daddy Don opposes protecting a sovereign nation from an unprovoked invasion the ‘American’ right loses their collective ‘mind’.
Conservatives love them some excuses to justify their actions or inactions: It costs too much! Putin might get angry! Ukraine is a Nazi nation! Zelenskyy is corrupt! Thermonuclear war! We have no national interest in Ukraine (but we did in Iraq and Afghanistan?). NATO is a scam! Putin is just protecting Russia! And of course, whatever DonJon says.
The normals (RINOs, Dems) support defending Ukraine, therefore the reactionaries (MAGAts, Taylor-Greenies, Putinistas) are agin it!!
Your great Russian Father screwed up by invading Ukraine. He expected Zelenskyy and the Ukrainians to roll over like Afghans to the Taliban. But Ukrainian nationalists said no, Vlad, not this time. Reactionaries are outraged that the world has come together to oppose Russian aggression.
The Better-Dead-Than-Red shouting Mr Dowd wrote:
So, now people who don’t want to get in a land war in Ukraine, against a nation with a strategic nuclear arsenal, aren’t really American, as Mr Dowd has indicated with his use of single quotation marks around the word American.
The socialist from St Louis, who has just written “When one runs out of arguments,” has decided to call thos of us who don’t want to get involved in the Ukraine war supporters of Vladimir Putin; talk about running out of arguments! But, it’s to be expected, really, since that is the Democrats current meme.
In 1916, Americans re-elected President Woodrow Wilson, who ran in part on the slogan “He kept us out of war!” In 1940, Americans re-elected President Franklin Roosevelt, who, while doing what he could to help the British, kept us out of war.
Before the war, Ukraine had the second largest army in Europe, behind Russia’s, but eventually — and remember: our host’s article was about a protracted war — Ukraine will run out of soldiers, where Russia, with thrice Ukraine’s pre-war population, can continue to draft men to fight. If this is a protracted war, Ukraine is doomed to either lose, or NATO will have to deploy its own soldiers to fight the Russians. And, as I’ve previously pointed out here, a New York Times OpEd stated:
Back to our madcap Missourian:
I just love how our ‘follow the science’ commenter thinks that “Thermonuclear war!” isn’t something we should avoid.
Dana: I just love how our ‘follow the science’ commenter thinks that “Thermonuclear war!” isn’t something we should avoid.
Are you suggesting that military aggression can’t be resisted if the aggressor has nuclear weapons? If so, what is the check on tyranny?
Building another strawman, hey kiddieZ?
Bwaha! Lolgfy
What is the check on Tyranny? Well, we are pretty certain at this point it isn’t voting. Personally, I’m much more concerned about tyranny in my homeland than tyranny on the other side of the planet. I expect that there are people who live there who can be concerned about that. Oh, look, Mr Putin is concerned about tyranny in neighboring Ukraine and decided to do something about it and you don’t like it. It is so easy to resort to calls for opposing “Tyranny” when what you really mean is “someone else should put on a uniform, risk their life in a cause you don’t even understand and a whole bunch of other people should pay for it just so you can feel smug about supporting the latest thing Twitter/Facebook/TicTic told you to support.
Mr Z asked:
You won’t like the answer, but perhaps there isn’t one.
Nuclear weapons have changed everything; between the US and Russia, we have enough to completely destroy civilization.
Professor Hale: What is the check on Tyranny? Well, we are pretty certain at this point it isn’t voting.
Voting is necessary but not sufficient. In Russia, Putin controls the media and locks up his political opponents. Regardless, you avoided answering the question.
Dana: You won’t like the answer, but perhaps there isn’t one.
So, you choose tyranny rather than responding to conventional aggression by resisting with conventional means.
Anyone who supports the US involvement in Ukraine is really just empowering Putin and helping turn most of the world against the US and our interfering oligarchic leadership. Our presence in Ukraine just justifies their view that we are nothing but a meddling incompetent bully on the world stage, thrashing around and causing death and destruction around the world. We even end up attacking our allies (blowing up the Nordstream pipeline to freeze the Germans).
Iraq, Libya, Syria, the Kurds, Afghanistan, Bosnia, Vietnam, Somalia. Now Ukraine.
We have a string of failures trailing behind us as we pretend to try to create “liberal democracies” around the world. What we really are spreading is corruption, resentment, and death.
Conmenter:
What a horrible slur on America without evidence!
Commenter:
The commenter attributes this belief to “the world”.
Commenter:
The right has waited decades to suddenly question US ‘meddling’. Coincidence? The didn’t blink when the US invaded Iraq in 2003. The right supported the First Gulf War (1990-91) to liberate Kuwait from occupation by Iraq. Was Kuwait of strategic importance to the US? (BTW, I DID support the First Gulf War, but not the 2003 version).
Although the US right falsely claim Ukrainians are Nazis and corruptocrats with plans to destabilize Russia, the fact is that the invasion of Ukraine by Russia was unprovoked. Sure, Putin didn’t like Ukrainians getting rid of a sycophantic pro-Russia corruptocracy. Zelenskyy campaigned to unify the Ukrainian- and Russian-speaking regions of Ukraine. Putin preferred funding Russian dissidents, rebels, separatists and terrorists in districts of Ukraine.
You might argue in vain that the Donbas was a territorial dispute, but the attack on Kyiv was a direct assault on Ukrainian sovereignty and a threat to the international order.
Now do Crimea, kiddieZ?
Remember?
Bwaha! Lolgfy
“the international order”
You say that like you have a personal stake in it. Free Clue: You don’t. The International Order is whatever people who work at the state department say it is and changes from one day to another. It changes Yugely when new presidents get elected. The International order is nothing more than a relative handful of people in power and their connected friends telling everyone else on the planet how to live. No elections. No self determination. And no escape. And the only “virtue” those people have is not altruism, it’s self promotion, greed, and an unshakable belief that whey should be treated like royalty because they deserve it. The International Order is a few lucky rich people deciding to back Ukraine because Ukraine is hopelessly corrupt and those people in the “International Order” are making a killing (literally) by doing business there. Just like Al Gore made a fortune trading carbon credits, after passing laws telling business they needed them. Just like connected bureaucrats in France, Germany, and the USA made a fortune off the Oil for Food program that helped rearm Iraq. And just like President Trump recommended Zelensky should look into that corruption going on in his oil industry. Then the “International Order” impeached Trump and replaced him with the guy who was getting rich in Ukrainian kickbacks. And every once in a while, the “international Order” decides to push a smaller country around because “reasons”. Then a whole bunch of unlucky brown people get to die at the hands of patriotic Americans who think they are doing the right thing, and sometimes those patriotic Americans die too so that people like Biden, Pelosi, Kerry and Clinton can live like royalty. That is your “International Order”.
No thank you.
Z,
You do realize that of all the commenters here, you are the one who will be drafted to fight a useless war.
Not in vain. In truth.
Which led to the attack on Kiev.
So who started it? We did. God forgive us, we did.
“but the attack on Kyiv was a direct assault on Ukrainian sovereignty and a threat to the international order.”
Maybe it is but it is no threat to American order. We have our own problems and most are caused by people like you. Warmongers. Open borders. Jailing citizens without bail for years. Stealing elections.
We will fight for America any day. Will you? Ever in the Army?
Didn’t think so. Shut up liar.
Couldn’t have said it better myself, ruralcounsel. The radical left endgame here is to finally shut the door on all heritage America. They can get us into an active war, declare an “emergency” and activate all the crap they learned to pull off during the scamdemic only this time IN SPADES.
Turn in our guns, ration our food, limit our speech etcetera all in the name of some emergency that we didn’t have to be in. WE are not “allies” of the Ukraine any more than we are allies of Mali. The Ukes have no bearing on our economy or sovereignty and neither do we on theirs other than trading partners.
Right now the dancing nazi ZZelenskyyy has shut down more Christian churches and arrested more priests and nuns all while disappearing $150 billion of our taxes. Where is the money? The Ukes have lost at least 200,000 casualties and the Russians about 20,000 yet all the usual suspects cry in harmony how the Ukes are “winning”. Winning what? Radical leftists in America love this because it’s all White people dying, all Christians being persecuted and all American money being laundered in the Seyshelles for the biden crime family.
We, as the Great American Empire should be negotiating for PEACE but our fake leaders on both sides are neocons pushing for all out war. Meanwhile the einept fools that stole our government are leaving borders open, Palestine, OH in ruin, white leftists and black activists making war on America from within and our economy in tatters soon to be followed by or banking sector. WTF is going on around here? Plus we have nudniks like our current leftists who want more of the same.
Professor Hale: The International Order is whatever people who work at the state department say it is and changes from one day to another.
The fundamental tenet of the international order is a prohibition on military aggression.
ruralcounsel: So who started it? We did.
If you are Russian, then yes.
L.G.Brandon!, L.G.Brandon!/b>: Maybe it is but it is no threat to American order.
The idea that the United States could be safe through isolation ended for good in 1941.
The idea that the United States needs to stick its nose in every conflict worldwide is a fools errand. You seem to fit the bill. We have no interests nor business encouraging war between Ukrainian Nazis and Russian oligarchs.
No matter, by the end of summer the Russians will polish off the Ukes and be done with it. Another 500,000 corpses added to the leftist pile from last century.
If America was still a great country like it was before the biden crime family took over we would be doing the responsible thing and brokering PEACE rather than financing war. You leftists are all war mongers and the body count shows it.
Where did you come up with this piece of garbage, Alinsky? That is an idiot statement. You can’t “prohibit” aggression.
I found this blog post to be very informative and thought-provoking. It’s interesting to see the different perspectives and opinions on the ongoing conflict between Ukraine and Russia. It’s certainly concerning to see politicians pushing for more military aid to Ukraine, as this could potentially escalate the conflict even further. I’m curious to know what other options are being considered to help resolve the situation and bring peace to the region. Is there any talk of diplomatic negotiations or other non-military solutions?