Pirate's Cove

Mostly, red flag laws have not been working, except in Florida. Most other states seem to ignore most complaints that would take guns away from citizens, because most of those states with red flag laws are run by Democrats, and they aren’t exactly into that whole law and order thing

Although NC senators support recent gun control legislation, state GOP leaders won’t talk about red flag law

In the aftermath of the Robb Elementary School shooting in Uvalde, Texas, federal lawmakers passed a bipartisan bill that aims to reduce gun violence in America.

To pass the historic piece of legislation, the Bipartisan Safer Communities Act, lawmakers had to compromise on both sides of the aisle. For Republicans, it meant embracing red flag or extreme-risk programs. Such programs allow authorities or family members in some states to ask courts to temporarily take away guns from a person who’s believed to be a danger to themselves or others. The gun owner then has a court hearing within a short timeframe to try to get their guns back. The removal can last up to a year in most states.

The idea has strong popular support. In a WRAL News Poll in June, 87% of respondents favored passing a red flag law in this state. Nineteen other states and the District of Columbia have passed them, but North Carolina is not one of them.

In fact, North Carolina does have laws on the books. More on that later, but, the thing is, we do not enact un-Constitutional laws based on public opinion polls. I’m having trouble finding the link to said poll at WRAL, to see the questions, to see if people understand how they work, and if they understand there are laws on the books. I did find a piece on red flags being missed for the Highland Park shooter, though

The new federal legislation offers incentives – money – to any state that adopts red flag laws right now. However, North Carolina is unlikely to change its stance on the issue. In June, WRAL News reported that state Republicans won’t even discuss the possibility.

State Rep. Marcia Morey, D-Durham, has filed red flag bills for six years. They’ve never even gotten a hearing. Morey told WRAL News that she tried to meet with House Speaker Tim Moore after the Uvalde school shooting to talk about it, but he wouldn’t even discuss it.

Asked about it, Tim Moore told WRAL News, “The issue is, a lot of the legislation is being pushed by those on the political left is really just gun control and it would simply take guns away from law-abiding citizens.”

There is a possibility for red flag laws to be used for political purposes, to simply take guns away for minor issues without due process

The process raises two concerns:

1. Police could infringe on a person’s “right to bear arms” without a court hearing.
This is true. If you’re thinking that sounds unconstitutional, here’s how the Center for Firearms Law at Duke University Executive Director Jake Charles explained it: “When there is an emergency, and it’s narrowly confined to emergency situations, then the constitution allows that a hearing can be delayed,” Charles said.” One context in which this happens routinely is in removing kids from their parents’ custody.

“That can happen in an emergency basis when there are credible allegations of abuse, and then the hearing is held later, and courts have upheld those as consistent with due process.”

Who defines the emergency? In NC, if children are removed from their parents this must go to court within 24 hours in said emergency, but, only in an extreme emergency, otherwise, a court must be consulted prior. That’s call due process. Required by the 4th Amendment. The problem with red flag laws is not the right to bear arms, but, due process.

2. The second concern is even after a hearing, the government can keep guns from a person who is deemed “dangerous,” which is pretty subjective.

First, someone close to the person would have to find them dangerous and call police. Then, police would have to find them dangerous and take the guns. Then, a prosecutor would have to find them dangerous enough to pursue the case on short notice. And finally, a judge would hear from both sides and still rule that the person was too dangerous to have a gun.

The arms would have already been taken away without a specific warrant. And, guess what? Article I of the NC Constitution

General warrants, whereby any officer or other person may be commanded to search suspected places without evidence of the act committed, or to seize any person or persons not named, whose offense is not particularly described and supported by evidence, are dangerous to liberty and shall not be granted.

Red flag laws are general warrants at best. Under the 4th Amendment of the US Constitution it’s simply taking property without warrant.

(US Law Shield) There are currently no red flag laws on the books in North Carolina. Though red flag legislation has previously been introduced, no bills have been passed by the legislature. It is important in discussing these red flag laws to remember that North Carolina already has similar laws in place to deal with individuals who may be a danger to themselves or others. N.C. Gen. Stat. § 122C-261 allows any person with firsthand knowledge of an individual to petition to the clerk of court to have an individual who represents a danger be involuntarily committed by law enforcement to a hospital for evaluation and treatment. Further, N.C. Gen. Stat. § 122C-262 allows for an emergency procedure whereby law enforcement, or others, can remove an individual from the community and take them to a hospital for evaluation without prior judicial approval, if they meet the criteria of requiring immediate hospitalization to prevent them from harming themselves or others. In other words, it needs to be emphasized in this debate that there are already laws in place in North Carolina to deal with mentally ill people who may pose a danger to themselves and others. Red flag laws are an unnecessary and potentially abusive solution to a problem that does not exist.

So, there are already measures. Ones that follow the law. And courts can then rule on taking firearms awa.